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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#330451: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:45:03 PM

Without a government of and by the people, we'll get a government that is not. In other words, a dictatorship.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330452: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:48:21 PM

We need government for far more mundane things like road maintenance, law enforcement, water and electricity, hospitals, the postal service, etc. Governments also serve an important function in maintaining good relations with other governments, and the people who live there, so they don't come over here and take our stuff and burn our fields.

Even running something as small as a city would be impossible without a government providing services no single individual could reasonably do. People living in societies without government generally live in groups not much larger than several extended families, and they have a very much lower standard of living because they simply cannot manage the kind of large scale infrastructure needed for the standard of living we live in now. It is no coincidence that these groups usually don't move beyond hunter-gatherer. Even the smallest tribe has a form of government, where a chief and elders make decisions that affect the entire tribe, and organize things from above that individual tribe members would struggle to do or even agree on. Can you imagine trying to make a decision with a thousand people, each with their own wishes and opinions? You could never get anything substantial done.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#330453: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:50:16 PM

Without a government of and by the people, we'll get a government that is not. In other words, a dictatorship.

Yeah, it's why I left anarchism. Too many people didn't realize the corporations and fascists were waiting in the wings.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330454: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:50:50 PM

@ Purple Eyed Guma: May I ask how old you are?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#330455: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:51:45 PM

But here’s the issue: no matter who wins, they’ll only be representing half of the people, and be against the other half.

Also, I really don’t appreciate being condescended toward.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330456: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:56:57 PM

Not at all, a good president will be president of all voters, even those who did not vote for them. Obama, for instance, was president for all Americans, even Republicans, and tried to set policies that would benefit Republicans as well as Democrats. That is how government is supposed to work. It's not like Obama was denying Republicans roads and electricity.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#330457: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:57:03 PM

I mean, that's objectively not true - Democrats try to do what's in the best interest of most people, even those that vote against them. There's actually been many a debate here why they even bother since a lot of people will see them as enemies anyway.

Only one party is dedicated to actively being against half (or more) of the country.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#330458: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:57:33 PM

[up][up][up]You're inviting condescension with your naivete.

No government will ever represent all the people. It's just mathematically impossible. The problem here is that one party — and only one party — has deliberately tried to provoke division in America to seize power against the will of the people. That party is the Republican Party. If they are allowed to keep doing what they're doing, we won't have a democracy for long.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 1st 2020 at 6:57:49 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330459: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:57:34 PM

But here’s the issue: no matter who wins, they’ll only be representing half of the people, and be against the other half.

I’d be interested in your evidence that Biden is only interested in representing and caring for the people who vote for him. As I’m pretty sure he’s explicitly come out against the idea.

Also be be technically with how low US voters turnout can be (plus the people who can’t vote) it’s actually about a quarter to 30% of the population who will have voted for the other candidate.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 1st 2020 at 10:59:13 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#330460: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:57:46 PM

A government that only represents half the people is objectively not doing its job correctly.

Also it's not condescending to tell you not to break literal rules or explain concepts so basic that being too young to have been taught them in school (I'm assuming you go to school as opposed to being homeschooled, which can be very good for children with certain needs, but is woefully inconsistent in quality) is the only good reason to not know them. That's why people are asking your age.

Edited by AlleyOop on Oct 1st 2020 at 7:01:09 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#330461: Oct 1st 2020 at 3:59:55 PM

Also, the president is exactly one position.

The House exists to more accurately represent people.

We could get into entire voting mechanics and the ideal way to have representative representatives, but that's a different thread. So have this CGP Grey playlist, it explains the problems with certain voting systems and alternatives that can be used.

PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#330462: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:00:39 PM

Yeah, I . . . guess I was just actively searching for an argument.

I really am relapsing.

astrokitty Happiness is a cup of tea from Somewhere Out There Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Happiness is a cup of tea
#330463: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:03:00 PM

Please take care of yourself and try to find something relaxing to do.

Somebody once told me the world was macaroni, I took a bite out of a tree
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#330464: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:03:30 PM

I suggest you take a break from this thread for a bit, if for nothing else than to give yourself a chance to collect yourself.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330465: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:03:30 PM

@ LSBK: Of course I mean generally speaking, the situation in the US is rather extreme in that regard right now. And the Republicans not governing for all Americans equally is part of that problem, of course.

And I would say even Bush was still trying to be president for all Americans, Democrat or Republican. Of course then you get the question of what sort of policy he has in mind for them, but the extreme we are seeing with Trump today, that he literally does not care for Democrats, is rather unprecedented.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 1st 2020 at 1:08:09 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#330466: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:08:14 PM

A government that can represent all its people is an impossibility like a game that everyone can love. It's just not going to happen unless all humanity is brainwashed to become a single consciousness hive mind.

Heck, go out there and say you like A. I'm pretty sure there will be someone who disagree with you because they hate A, because they are contrarian, because they are trolling, and so on.

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330467: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:10:46 PM

Yeah if you’re not very used to engaging with the news cycle and constant debate it’s generally a bad idea for your mental health to dive in head-first, there’s a reason the most prolific posters here have been doing this for years, you build a tolerance to the wear and tear the following events has on you.

That or people are oddities like me, I actually come to this thread to relax. tongue

Edited by Silasw on Oct 1st 2020 at 11:11:11 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330468: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:17:27 PM

Of course no politician can represent everyone, but a good politician will at least strive to do right by as many of them as possible. When in the US, as a Democrat, you have a Republican president, you still expect them to do things that will benefit you, like maintaining the roads and keeping schools running.

Maintaining the roads, by the way, is one of the things this president has been neglecting, apparently, so he even fails on that basic level of government.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330469: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:18:46 PM

It’s a double failure with Trump, as he has often spoken about fixing broken infrastructure and has announced “infrastructure week” multiple times.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#330470: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:19:14 PM

[up][up][up] Yup, while the thread can become a bit intense or emotional when something extreme or completely unexpected happened, it's still pretty casual and restrained for the most part. You want something truly intense or emotional? Go check social media sites, Reddit, or worse Youtube's comments. You are lucky if you can have coherent conversations there.

Edited by SteamKnight on Oct 1st 2020 at 6:19:49 PM

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330471: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:23:55 PM

I refuse to even read Twitter just on principle, I don’t have a Reddit account and I avoid any You Tube or Facebook content focused around news and/or current events. Shit I won’t even watch the news on TV.

Maybe that’s why I’m less prone to getting overwhelmed with stress. grin

Edited by Silasw on Oct 1st 2020 at 11:25:14 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330472: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:24:04 PM

"Every week is infrastructure week", right?

The infrastructure problem is actually a great demonstration of why something like the current political divide is so damaging to any society. Infrastructure is one of those basic things that everyone needs, regardless of party. No one wants a bridge collapsing under their car, after all, or have to replace their tires too soon because the roads are full of potholes. So this is the kind of public project that needs wide support from both sides of the aisle (or in other countries, support from both coalition and opposition parties). But in the current political climate, bipartisanship is all but impossible, mostly because of key figures just plain blocking it from moving on. So the project never gets off the ground, and US infrastructure continues to deteriorate.

And presumably, there will come a point where things start getting so bad that even Republicans cannot afford to just ignore it any more. Usually, such situations can suddenly reach a breaking point with a major disaster, like a bridge collapse for example. Lets hope it doesn't get that far.

Edited by Redmess on Oct 1st 2020 at 1:33:07 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#330473: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:34:38 PM

I follow NPR and the ACLU on Twitter, and anything that doesn’t pass through those channels I pick up from here. It’s been effective at not making me feel like things are worse than they actually, while keeping me informed enough to keep myself safe and responsible.

My musician page
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#330474: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:34:49 PM

Nevermind on that, Scott Adams is an asshole, and he was trolling at that.

Edited by tclittle on Oct 1st 2020 at 6:36:32 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330475: Oct 1st 2020 at 4:45:10 PM

I can kinda see where Guma is coming from, by the way. If you are young and you just start getting interested in politics, having your first experience being the Trump presidency is not exactly going to give a good first impression of government in general.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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