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GoosefromWikipedia (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#330301: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:53:27 PM

If Biden gets elected, I am pretty sure that Trump and the Proud Boys will support a "peaceful" transition of power (and by "peaceful", I mean "drive Biden and Harris out of the White House by gunpoint so Trump can get another 4 more years".)

Edited by GoosefromWikipedia on Sep 30th 2020 at 5:53:58 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#330302: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:55:46 PM

At which point the Secret Service would deal with them.

No way they'd have enough numbers to be worth military intervention.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330303: Sep 30th 2020 at 5:58:15 PM

I feel the question is starting to become, should the Secret Service or military act now or later. I mean, Trump is setting off so many red flags at this point you could hold a parade with them.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 2:58:46 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#330304: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:00:05 PM

Trump's current plan is one he's already stated: he's going to challenge the results of the election and take it to the Supreme Court.

Bush 2.0.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 30th 2020 at 6:00:11 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#330305: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:01:33 PM

It should be noted that The Proud Boys and such are actually fairly cowardly and also not as...committed as they think they are. They recently tried to have a rally not far from where I live and nobody showed up. Basically it's John Wick vs. an even weaker Hux.

So, no, we shouldn't be too worried. Admittedly, it only takes one guy to kill the president (contrary to what any JFK conspiracy theorists will tell you), but even then, that's what vice presidents are for.

Leviticus 19:34
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#330306: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:03:28 PM

[up]Bingo, they back off when outnumbered, even by unarmed opponents.

[up][up]That's only feasible in a close election. If Biden wins by Obama margins, or even by Trump's EV margin in reverse (taking the Obama-Trump states to get past 270), that tactic likely falls apart.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330307: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:05:44 PM

I'm not sure we should be relying too much on the cowardice of militias. Underestimating an enemy never leads to good things.

I honestly don't know what to think or expect any more. Things just look very bad.

[up] The problem is, with the electoral college, even a comfortable victory can become a close election. In other words, unless Biden wins by a landslide, Trump and his supporters will probably be able to suggest that results are close even if the popular vote isn't. And that will give them the opening they need.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 3:08:11 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#330308: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:08:04 PM

I'm not exactly sure what the strategy is, there. Does he think linking Biden to the Green New Deal is going to drive away the left?

Yes, in the confrontation (it absolutely cannot be called a debate), Trump seemed to believe his own narrative that Biden is under the sway of the 'radical left', so went after him for wanting to bring the Green New Deal. When Biden said the Biden Plan isn't the Green New Deal, Trump tried to pull a 'gotcha' by acting like Biden's just lost all his support base because the 'radical left' will turn on him for rejecting the Green New Deal.

The point in that argument was that Biden had been talking about his environmental and climate change plan and Trump sort of dived in with a rather baffled sounding 'but that's the Green New Deal' type of response (note: I'm not quoting his exact words), which is what triggered the tirade. It indicated that Trump didn't really understand what Biden was saying and doesn't understand either Biden's plan or the Green New Deal.

Trump's primary interest was the belief that Biden's kept afloat by the 'radical left' and that, thanks to Trump, Biden's now lost his support base.


There are two things I will note about the session (I watched the entire thing).

The first is that a lot has been said about his 'stand back and stand by' call to the Proud Boys (and others) when he decided to endorse white supremacists crashing the election on his behalf instead of accepting an election loss. However, he said one other thing very clearly: He does intend to use the Supreme Court to intervene over the mail-in ballots if the election is found in Biden's favour. He wasn't even subtle about it. Wallace basically asked him if, with his new pick, he intends to use the SC to intervene, and he confirmed it.

The other thing is that I mentioned on this thread last night that it seemed like Trump was trying to harass Biden enough for his speech impediment to flare up. I also observed that it can be hard to tell because this is also typical behaviour for Trump, who goes after people in an aggressive, bullying way. His behaviour last night was extremely hateful, vicious and spiteful in his attempts to prevent Biden from being able to get a word in edge-wise. That's why it wasn't a debate: it was full-blown verbal abuse.

However, I did observe that, at times, Biden was noticeably cooling and slowing his words or pausing. At those times, I could detect hints of his stutter beginning to surface. So, what Trump supporters are seeing as weakness, timidity, were (as far as I could tell) signs of someone who has developed strong and successful coping strategies for managing a speech impediment. For example, at one point he said "... tax c-c-c—-proposals..." which is a management tool for dealing with a stutter that's beginning to kick in (word substitution).

So, yes, Biden did occasionally come across as 'weak' in a couple of places when Trump's verbal assaults were at their most 'powerful' (in an abusive way, not a good one).... but that was almost always when his stutter seemed to be starting to kick in, and he had rein in and change his verbal tack to accommodate.

I don't think the ability to do that, under that kind of stress and with an entire world watching, is weak. It frankly impressed me. The scale of Trump's unrelenting vicious and hateful assault on Biden every time Biden opened his mouth to say something was very powerful, very aggressive, and very off-putting. Through the entire session, Biden mostly stayed calm, in control and managed his speech impediment under extreme provocation very well.

I hope other people around the country, who suffer from speech impediments, also took note of that and took heart. Even without the speech impediment, anyone staying mostly calm under an assault that vicious and that sustained for over an hour is frankly impressive.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 30th 2020 at 2:23:36 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#330309: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:08:59 PM

I dunno, Trump is fully confidant of even brazen election.

Should Biden win by an overabundance, he'll call FOUL and try to take it to his packed court.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330310: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:12:16 PM

Was it a stutter? I figured he was just fumbling for a word a few times.

Not a big deal, of course, and Biden seemed to regain his footing pretty quickly after the first half hour or thereabouts.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#330311: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:13:37 PM

It's a stutter. Biden even gave an interview about it at one point.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#330312: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:14:40 PM

[up][up][up]

If it comes down to 1 or 2 states with very close popular vote totals we could see a repeat of the 2000 election. But overturning the election results on a broad level without absolutely damning evidence is a line I think even the more hardline conservative justices wouldn't be willing to cross (maybe one or two of them, but not 5).

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330313: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:14:53 PM

That is indeed an impressive performance, then.

Someone ought to make a Biden meme on "The King's Speech", I think.

[up] That one is going to be a very interesting session of the SC, to be sure.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 3:16:27 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#330314: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:20:23 PM

I'm not sure we should be relying too much on the cowardice of militias. Underestimating an enemy never leads to good things.

The chances of the Proud Boys mounting an attack on the federal government are slim to zero. Worry about literally anything other than that.

Besides, even if they somehow did find the nerve, which they won’t, they’re so outgunned it isn’t even funny. If they tried to storm the White House they wouldn’t make it past the front gate.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 30th 2020 at 6:22:27 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#330315: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:20:51 PM

Roberts and Gorsuch aren't going to overturn a substantial Biden win, let alone a landslide. Even Alito and Thomas might hesitate to overturn a landslide, because DC is very blue and Blue America would be furious in such a scenario.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#330316: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:20:59 PM

[up][up][up] Honestly I expect what will actually happen if Trump is seeking to overturn the election results on a broad level without damning evidence in hand is that the Supreme Court will refuse to hear the case at all.

Edited by Falrinn on Sep 30th 2020 at 6:21:12 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#330317: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:27:01 PM

I don't trust the Supreme Court at all.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330318: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:29:22 PM

[up][up][up][up] My logical brain agrees, but my lizard brain is nervous nonetheless.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#330319: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:32:12 PM

Never listen to the lizard brain. We're not climbing trees and devouring bird eggs anymore, after all.

Most of us aren't anyway <shifts gaze nervously>.

Edited by M84 on Sep 30th 2020 at 9:32:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#330320: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:37:26 PM

Trump has been stacking the court in his favor, I can completely see them handing him the election no matter the actual outcome.

My trust in them is literally in the negatives, especially if ms segregationist get on there.

Edited by Memers on Sep 30th 2020 at 7:11:48 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#330321: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:37:58 PM

538 and Hacks on Tap also think Trump was trying to get Biden to start stuttering with his nonstop attacks. Notably, the latter has a Republican co-host who was quick to agree that this was Trump's intention.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330322: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:39:47 PM

I trust the Supreme Court to save their own skins. They’re not going to do something so brazen and anti-democratic that it risks making DC go 1812 or itself/them.

If the election comes down to a state with a Republican Governor then yes the Supreme Court will totally rubber stamp any electoral fraud they do (and they’ll do it, especially in Georgia or Florida), 2000 style. But Biden has a path to victory without said states, that’s why it’s so important that Dems picked up governorships in 2018.

[up][up] What evidence do you have for the suggestion that they’re willing to give their lives to make Trump dictator? Especially when they won’t even fully side with him on his taxes.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 30th 2020 at 1:42:01 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#330323: Sep 30th 2020 at 6:45:23 PM

[up] Exactly. A 6-3 conservative majority on the court has the potential to cause problems, both in the election and for years to come. But no Justice owes Trump a damn thing once they are seated, certainly not their lives.

Edited by Falrinn on Sep 30th 2020 at 6:45:44 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#330324: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:20:18 PM

Exactly. A 6-3 conservative majority on the court has the potential to cause problems, both in the election and for years to come. But no Justice owes Trump a damn thing once they are seated, certainly not their lives.

Roberts already handed the election to George W. Bush when he (almost certainly) lost it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 30th 2020 at 7:20:28 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#330325: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:22:04 PM

Because it was close enough that this would not make being a Republican in DC a very dicey proposition.


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