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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330251: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:22:04 PM

Other than going to jail for assaulting a president? Not really, no.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#330252: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:25:58 PM

Even if the whole "going to prison" thing didn't happen, the emotional draw Trump has on his followers would just be bolstered by it. "See? They attacked Trump because the radical antifa liberal Social Justice Warriors are triggered!". It'd just confirm what they already want to believe.

Edited by Aszur on Sep 30th 2020 at 3:26:57 PM

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#330253: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:26:58 PM

To be fair, those gits always say that, regardless of what people do.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#330254: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:27:09 PM

I'm not even kidding myself about him going to prison.

I just hope he will live out the rest of his days in bitter irrelevancy.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#330255: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:27:26 PM

I'm kind of surprised at how many people are surprised the debate turned out the way it did. There was no way it wasn't with Trump there, and there honestly no insentive for Biden to be significantly more civil then he was. After all Hillary Clinton was more civil and it didn't help her much.

I also can't help but find the foreign pretty eye-roll worthy, as though this degradation of civility in politics has been happening worldwide (and that's before getting into the inherent violence involved in politics).

I will say that I'm surprised Biden was so charitable to Antifa. Not sure if that says anything about how he feels more broadly about the left and its agenda, but it was a pleasant surprise.

Edited by Mio on Sep 30th 2020 at 5:28:59 AM

SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#330256: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:29:12 PM

I think a lot of this "great debate moments" shenanigans is caused by how debate is presented in movies and cherry-picking examples from history. And let's be honest, a "clean and beautiful" debate is pretty much out of the windows when Trump is one of the participants. There is a reason why professional martial artists in general deem complete amateurs to be the worst opponent.

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#330257: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:29:22 PM

I think people mostly were surprised by the degree to which it was terrible. Trump can definitely be more coherent than that at debates.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330258: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:31:31 PM

Has or hasn't? It certainly is a concern in my country. Rutte was recently criticized, and apologized for, telling soccer fans to "shut their trap" (in free translation) after they cheered during a soccer match.

[up][up] That is a good point, perhaps we are expecting too much from debates, though when great moments do happen, they are certainly worth it.

The "senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" moment was brought up as one of those moments yesterday in the program I was watching.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 11:34:39 AM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#330259: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:35:37 PM

I've seen no shortage of articles pointing out that debates don't really matter unless some truly unique and shocking stuff goes on.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330260: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:40:08 PM

I think what is really behind much of the criticism is that foreign commentators want another Obama, in a sense, someone who can inspire hope and present a better future for America. Obama was huge over here. People expected him to basically usher in a new era of world peace or something. And while that was maybe a tad optimistic, I think there is some real value in that as well. It makes the world feel at ease with who is running the White House, and makes them trust the US more.

And the US certainly needs to rebuild those feelings right now.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#330261: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:46:09 PM

I'm also pleasantly surprised at Biden's willingness to characterize antifa as such, but I guess it's an easy point to score with the progressive wing.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#330262: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:46:26 PM

The Burisma stuff was maybe Hunter going "Hey, my dad's Joe Biden" without any hint Joe himself got him the job or took advantage of the position. As others have pointed out, Trumps have zero right to make this argument.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330263: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:49:07 PM

Obama is a once in a generation politician, it’s silly to expect such politicians to appear every election.

Here’s the thing, Dutch commentators might want to be inspired and hear about grand plans, but that’s not what the American people want, they want things to become boring again, they want to be able to safely ignore the president, they want to focus on their own lives instead of huge events they have no real control over.

Biden is very good for that.

Based on the bit fo the debate I did watch I’d summarise Biden’s message as “Trump is a liar with no plan or ability to do the job, and it’s his fault things have gone to shit”, which seems like a solid message.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#330264: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:51:22 PM

At least Biden will lend an open ear to progressive solutions and ideas...right?

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#330265: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:55:21 PM

Let's just hope he will also act accordingly.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#330266: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:55:34 PM

Same way bipartisan moderates LBJ and FDR did if there's the right congress no, that's not sarcasm)

SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#330267: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:56:02 PM

Let's be honest, most debates are just like most street brawls, it's just two guys pummeling each other in undignified manner, hugging each other while hitting the other guy's head or back or rolling on the ground while yelling and screaming. You just need to replace fist with words. Street brawling looks cool in movies because it's in movies. It got choreography and received editing.

The world doesn't run on storytelling or narrative logic. Just because the future of America and by extension the world because America is so large whenever it move, the rest of the world are dragged along shaken by it, doesn't mean that the debate that could decide its future is going to be dramatic cinematic masterpiece like in Lincoln.

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330268: Sep 30th 2020 at 2:57:43 PM

From a raw progressive perspective Biden’s dodge on court packing is great news, because it means he’s at least considering it, which is huge progress.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330269: Sep 30th 2020 at 3:04:57 PM

@ Silas: I know it is too much to hope for another Obama, but under the circumstances it is understandable that people really want one. The last thing they want is a Trump dictatorship, after all.

[up] That's a good spin on it, I suppose.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 12:07:23 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#330270: Sep 30th 2020 at 3:07:32 PM

Sure but it’s kinda mean of the commentators to disparage a pretty solid and progressive politician (Biden) because he doesn’t mean an absurd standard of being a once in a generation movement leader (which Biden’s generation had with Martin Luther King Junior).

Any word on the federal government being funded? It’s what, 6 hours till it shuts down if nothing is passed?

Edited by Silasw on Sep 30th 2020 at 10:08:11 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330271: Sep 30th 2020 at 3:08:51 PM

Mind you, they don't actually say that they want another Obama, but I think that is the underlying sentiment. They want this guy to be great, because the alternative is so terrible.

Wait, what, it is going to shut down in 6 hours? Talk about burying the lead. So what is the news on that right now? What do they need to pass for it to reopen, exactly?

And how bad is this going to be in the middle of a pandemic if the government does shut down?

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 12:12:08 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#330272: Sep 30th 2020 at 3:13:33 PM

The Senate just passed the House spending bill a few minutes ago.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330273: Sep 30th 2020 at 3:18:53 PM

Ah, crisis averted, then? Is it at least a good bill?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#330274: Sep 30th 2020 at 3:24:12 PM

It gets us from Point A to Point B.

Point B being like a month and a half from now.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330275: Sep 30th 2020 at 3:26:26 PM

You guys are being very casual about this. I guess it is normal for the US, but it would be complete pandemonium over here if the government was ever in that situation.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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