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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#330076: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:15:20 AM

[up][up]No one said you should? I assume Redmess mentioned it because, you know, they are from the Netherland and so know about it.

Edited by Heatth on Sep 30th 2020 at 11:15:47 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#330077: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:15:23 AM

[up][up][up] Maybe somebody misplaced the translated transcript.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 30th 2020 at 4:15:41 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#330078: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:16:21 AM

Did the Dutch commentators register Trump's open white nationalism and threats of violence to suppress voting, at all or was it just about how awesome he did against Biden?

[No personal attacks, Hodor -Septimus Heap]

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Sep 30th 2020 at 6:15:11 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330079: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:17:28 AM

Actually, the debate was subtitled. I cannot vouch for its quality because I did not read it, but I did note the subtitles basically skipped some of the more chaotic moments, including a rather important argument where the subtitles just said "next subject" (in Dutch, naturally).

[up] Yes they did, and now you are just strawmanning.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 4:18:08 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#330080: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:18:56 AM

To be honest redmess, I get your points but you aren't making them very well. There seems to be a big gap in perception in general.

E.g trump did dominate the debate (he did most of the talking and ignored others) but some seem to take it to mean that he won or commanded respect. Which is sometimes used as a meaning, but not the intense meaning here.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330081: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:20:32 AM

[up] Yes, thank you. I'm sorry I don't always come across clearly.

He dominated the debate, but not in a respectable way, nor did he win because of it. But it did make it tough for Biden to really shine here.

I think Biden won marginally, but not convincingly.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 4:23:17 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#330082: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:25:46 AM

You know, maybe the rest of this thread shoul be more charitable to the guy with "vote Biden" in their signature insteado of constantly badgering and strawmanning them.

To be frank, from the outside this last few pages were very unconfortable to read.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#330083: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:29:29 AM

It doesn't matter what you have in your signature when people are responding to his posts

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#330084: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:30:51 AM

When they take the position of "trump dominated the debate by acting like a pathetic manchild" it's going to get pushback

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#330085: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:31:25 AM

NO, DUTCH COMMENTATORS ARE NOT PRO TRUMP! ANYTHING BUT!

And if anything, Dutch commentators have been pushing back hard on the shoddy masking policy here.

That is not at all what I said. Stop twisting my words.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 30th 2020 at 4:35:32 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#330086: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:35:42 AM

Can we chill a bit, please? I like a good pile-on as much as the next forum participant but this is a bit much. Redmess is allowed to have his opinions.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#330087: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:38:35 AM

This has already been mentioned and I'm kinda late to this, but since it got brought up, I just want to stress the point that while excitement might matter, many people don't seem to be aware that negative feelings towards the other candidate is just a strong, if not stronger, a motivator for who people vote for. Like this is something that has been observed empirically even outside of politics, it's a basic part of human psychology that we often frame things in terms of avoiding negative outcomes over pursuing positive ones.

Point being, in a sense it's reasonable to point out biden isn't necessarily the most charismatic or exciting candidate, but (and not that anyone here has said this, but it's something that comes up sometimes) that doesn't automatically mean he is going to do poorly against trump, precisely because that many people dislike trump that stopping him is a strong motivator on its own.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Sep 30th 2020 at 11:42:32 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#330088: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:43:10 AM

The thing about Biden...he's likable, he's folksy and he's funny. Most people don't seem to want a charismatic firebrand right now. Elections aren't won by landing perfect dunks and zingers.

Most people like even keels, especially in leaders. He’s a normal guy at the end of a four-year era dominated by whackjobs

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#330090: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:47:28 AM

I still can't comprehend the mindset of people like that. I just can't.

It's been fun.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#330091: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:48:47 AM

Aggressive apathy. They don't want to have to make a decision.

And if they sat out the election in 2016, they probably also don't want to admit that they fucked up by not voting against Trump. So instead they double down.

Edited by M84 on Sep 30th 2020 at 10:49:37 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#330092: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:49:47 AM

A number of them are likely looking for a reason to vote Trump

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#330093: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:50:52 AM

People like that presumably want a smokescreen reason so they can vote for Trump and still claim to not be racist or something.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#330094: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:52:29 AM

Yeah, a lot of people just prefer to avoid conflict and don't want to take a side in a big political.controversy because if they accept trump is bad, they might also have to accept a lot of other things about themselves or other people. "Nearly half the country is ok with someone who promotes white supremacy and domestic terrorism openly on tv" is not an easy pill to swallow.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#330095: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:53:22 AM

Like Red, I am also someone from outside the U.S, and the papers and articles I get about the debate yesterday seem to simplify the debate as a whole "Nobody won" thing.

Major accusation seemed to be about Trump being particularly grumpy about not getting his chin wiped enough by his nanny and needing a nap.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#330096: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:53:53 AM

Iirc the average time a voter spends on politics is 5 minutes per week .

Never underestimate how little low-info voters know. You can even see some of them regurgitate right wing conspiracies

Edited by devak on Sep 30th 2020 at 4:54:44 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#330097: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:55:48 AM

One of the issues I have with Trump being praised as "strong," TBQH, is...he's not. He's a weak bully who's also a serial abuser. And abusers are often full of angry bluster and aggression without actual strength.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#330098: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:56:53 AM

[up]Honestly, the notion of Trump being "strong" always reminds me of the misconceptions surrounding "alpha males". :/

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#330099: Sep 30th 2020 at 7:57:31 AM

[up][up]Most so-called "strongmen" are like that.

Edited by M84 on Sep 30th 2020 at 10:57:38 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#330100: Sep 30th 2020 at 8:00:56 AM

re: Trump going after Biden's son. I'm reminded of the 2008 vice presidential debate where Sarah Palin also made disparaging remarks about Biden's late son, and Biden literally cried on camera. By conventional wisdom, Biden literally crying during a debate should have made him seem weak and pathetic, but the overwhelming actual response was that Palin was completely out of line and Biden was humanized to a vast swathe of the audience.


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