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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#329576: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:05:03 PM

And as for formulating your political positions, I've got a few suggestions you might find handy.

1) Don't listen to just outlets that you already agree with. When I was in my early 20s, I actually listened to Rush Limbaugh while driving, and every now and then, I'd actually agree with a position of his... but he'd nigh-inevitably say something that made me vehemently disagree with him, even if he didn't intend that reaction.

2) For the most part, go with print sources if you want actual news. Televised news is very much about If It Bleeds, It Leads, while print sources will enable you to get into the nitty-gritty of the particular situation.

3) Use primary sources. If an article you're reading cites a different one, read that article too - sometimes a citation lacks critical context, sometimes accidentally, and sometimes very purposefully.

4) Read Starship Troopers - it's genuinely helpful in figuring out where you might fall on the political spectrum, since it's not necessarily that you disagree with a stated stance within the book (not the movie - that is a very important distinction), but why you disagree with it.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#329577: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:06:00 PM

The issue is that, since Obama's election, the Republican party has been arguing and trading in worse and worse faith, and Trump's election has gone almost full-blown Nineteen Eighty Four, what with Sean Spicer's "alternative facts" and Rudy Giuliani espousing "Truth isn't truth" on live TV.

I'd argue they've been doing that for a whole lot longer. Trump isn't an anomaly that hijacked their system, he is a deliberate hateful product of them.

Wasn't it Barry Goldwater who warned this would happen after the republicans allied themselves to the evangelicals?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#329578: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:06:45 PM

So if you're a Democrat in a red state, then your vote essentially goes to Trump regardless of what you put on your ballot.

Yeah the sad reality is that if you’re a democrat in Oklahoma or a Republican in California the most effective thing you can do to help your party at the presidential election isn’t vote, it’s to have not been counted in the most recent census.

We can see this is history, if slaves had been counted as whole people instead of 3/5th of a person, then slavery might have lasted longer, as slave states would have had more electoral college votes with which to get pro-slavery presidential candidates election.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 28th 2020 at 9:07:37 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#329579: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:07:57 PM

I'm not sure if Goldwater said that, but if I had to pick three people most responsible for the current trajectory of the Republican Party, it'd be him, Phyllis Schlafly, and Newt Gingrich.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#329580: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:08:53 PM

[up]Where does Reagan fit on your ranking?

My musician page
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#329581: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:09:26 PM

@Aszur, yup. Goldwater was also the guy who, near the end of his life, bitterly joked that he of all people was now considered a liberal in Republican circles.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#329582: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:09:40 PM

I'd reccomend you read something by Ayn Rand, but I don't hate you.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#329583: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:11:53 PM

Goldwater was still a far-right wacko but when compared to the modern GOP he actually comes off as quite a bit more reasonable in a few areas. He despised the religious right, was pro-choice and I recall he supported gay people to an extent but I'm not familiar with the specifics.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Sep 28th 2020 at 6:12:31 AM

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#329584: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:13:59 PM

We can see this is history, if slaves had been counted as whole people instead of 3/5th of a person, then slavery might have lasted longer, as slave states would have had more electoral college votes with which to get pro-slavery presidential candidates election.
We can still see it now, too - gerrymandered districts often exploit prisons to meet rules about district populations being roughly the same while disallowing a large portion of the district from actually voting. You can have things like 5,000 people voting for 25,000 by adding a large prison to their district. Even after people have served their time, in many states, they're disenfranchised for life and tacking heavily-policed neighborhoods whose residents are disproportionately likely to be permanently barred from voting onto a group of people who aren't large enough to form a district but support your party can create a district where your supporters have more say than your opponents, even if your supporters form a minority of the district's actual population.

Edited by Balmung on Sep 28th 2020 at 4:14:09 AM

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#329585: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:18:27 PM

Where does Reagan fit on your ranking?
As a complete piece of shit who was more about being a spokesperson than a thought leader like Goldwater's establishment of the white identity politics of the modern GOP, Schlafly's culture wars and mass mobilization of conservative white women, and Gingrich's push for ever worse faith in the legislature.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#329586: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:22:26 PM

Reagan became the gold standard though.

The fact he was all fluff and no substance while being the puppet of profit and venture in the background is what the republicans began to build from then on because it landed them votes.

He was far more influential than that. And incompetent, too.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#329587: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:27:49 PM

Goldwater helped pave for the way of corrupting the Christian Church in America. He is nothing but an enormous pile of racist shit who helped start the culture wars. Ironic, he was wrong about what he predicted because the sewage flowed from the Right into the faithful.

And I know they had flaws but the GOP made the modern political-corruption monster machine.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#329588: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:35:53 PM

Again, I don't think Schlafly's role can be overstated. She was the absolute queen of all culture warriors. And the big inciting incident was the IRS taking away Bob Jones University's tax exempt status due to its policy of segregation. She set about uniting the evangelicals into a powerful unified conservative coalition to try to undo this and did so by making everything remotely controversial a wedge issue to push these people to reliably turn out to vote for the conservative, no matter who, and to see anyone progressive not just as someone with a differing opinion, but as an enemy of both themselves and of God Himself.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#329589: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:37:54 PM

I mean. The issue I see is that I would not, right now, descirbe the Republican party as having a principle or an ideology whatsoever, so espousing that Goldwater's ideals prevailed is a bit odd to me.

The Republican party runs on the principle of "I want to win to stay in power" and the cost of "literally everything but me". It's why even the more "principled" ones like Mitt Romney can do a 180 on stuff like the Supreme Court choice.

Anything they say doesn't matter. It bears no relevance. They will mold anything they want to say according to the needs of whoever gives them money. They would pretend Lincoln was secretly a racist if the Koch brothers paid them to do it.

If there was anything remotely similar to a conscience in them it died long ago though it sputtered its death throes on occasion from maybe, like, what. Mc Cain?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#329590: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:43:56 PM

I would say they do have ideals, they are just pretty terrible ones like plutocracy and xenophobia. In addition to them being bad they are also so convinced they are right that they think anything is justifiable to remain in power, even if it is antidemocratic and disenfranchising to the vast majority of people.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Sep 28th 2020 at 6:45:02 AM

Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#329591: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:47:05 PM

The GOP absolutely does have principles. They're just abhorrent.

The GOP wants to dismantle all environmental regulations, workers protections, and healthcare regulations, and they want to viciously enforce cis straight white male supremacy though harsh border enforcement, heavy-handed policing, reversing Obergefell v Hodges, Brown v Board of Education, Roe v Wade, repealing the Voting Rights Act, every Civil Rights Act, Affirmative Action, and more. Basically, they want to roll back to around 1880, when rich businessmen were virtually unchecked and they could freely oppress minorities however they wished.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#329592: Sep 28th 2020 at 2:52:44 PM

[up]Yeah, if they had no principles and just wanted power you'd see much more significant diversity of proposed policy. But no, Republicans are lockstep in the issues they support and the policies they want.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#329593: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:00:52 PM

To the surprise of nobody, the Trump campaign has been listing voters that it doesn't want to vote and seeking to deter them. Well, it did in 2016; it's probably doing so this time around too.

Edited by RainehDaze on Sep 28th 2020 at 11:01:21 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#329594: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:03:51 PM

Singling them out by name? That seems hilariously inefficient.

My musician page
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#329595: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:04:52 PM

Only if you can't automate at all.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#329596: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:26:53 PM

Also, here's an in-depth look at the debts Trump owes. Remember, it's only 421mil coming due soon. He actually has over a billion dollars in debt. Further on it goes into calculating Trump's total net worth etc.

Cash Trump has available: probably ~$160 mil. Adverse tax rulings could cost ~$100 mil of that. Net worth is probably 2 and a bit billion? Before the debt. So... about half his worth is outweighed by his existing debts, and all of it is buried in heavily mortgaged properties that nobody will want to buy at their stated value.

Edited by RainehDaze on Sep 28th 2020 at 11:34:09 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#329597: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:39:05 PM

What's amazing is that Russia, Saudi Arabia, and other people donated hundreds of millions of dollars to get Trump out of debt.

Trump blew through all of that.

He robbed his own campaign of something like 600 million dollars to get rid of his debt....already gone.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 28th 2020 at 3:39:52 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#329598: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:40:49 PM

He is without a doubt the worst businessman ever. He got plenty of starting cash from his father, and invested into real estate and casinos. Two things that should not fail. Somehow, this collapsed and he wound up massively in debt. Got a lucrative television deal... blew through all that investing in the same easily-profitable industries. And he's massively in debt again.

How do you get a billion dollars in debt owning property?

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#329599: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:44:40 PM

So did anyone else hear about this?

REVEALED: Trump’s election campaign wanted to deter millions of Black Americans from voting in 2016.

The ‘Deterrence’ project can be revealed after Channel 4 News obtained the database used by Trump's digital campaign team.

Millions of Americans in key battleground states were separated into eight categories, so they could be targeted with tailored ads online.

One of the categories was named ‘Deterrence’, which was later described publicly by Trump’s chief data scientist as containing people the campaign “hope don’t show up to vote”.

Analysis by Channel 4 News shows Black Americans - historically a community targeted with voter suppression tactics - were disproportionately marked ‘Deterrence’ by the 2016 campaign.

In total, 3.5 million Black Americans were marked ‘Deterrence’.

Overall, people of colour labelled as Black, Hispanic, Asian and ‘Other’ groups made up 54% of the ‘Deterrence’ category.

Meanwhile, categories of voters the campaign wished to attract were overwhelmingly white.

The investigation reveals the Trump campaign targeted Black Americans with negative ads on Facebook and social media - despite the campaign's denials.

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 28th 2020 at 6:48:27 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#329600: Sep 28th 2020 at 3:45:23 PM

Look six posts above yours. tongue


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