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RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#329276: Sep 26th 2020 at 9:13:56 PM

Straight up, I’ve seen ex christian atheists insist that “all religions” seek to convert people, while talking to a Jewish person. When like... Jewish people don’t do that shit at all?

Ah, the people who insist they're more educated or whatever and blatantly haven't taken the time to learn about the very thing they're being pushy about. And as ever making it more annoying because it's something people generally hold quite deeply.

Because most religions do not have a proselytising bent. And some denominations within religions are much pushier about it than others.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#329277: Sep 26th 2020 at 9:16:18 PM

Random factoid but Native American spiritual systems are particularly irritated about this as was explained to me. As one teacher shared, "This is the religion for the Odawa and not for anyone outside the tribe. It's not to be shared and it can't be practiced by anyone else. That's not how it works."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#329278: Sep 26th 2020 at 9:18:59 PM

You can't expect everyone to fully educate themselves. The lay person sees each group as represented by its most vocal or extreme elements. This is why atheism's most visible public figures are folks like Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher (never mind Stalinist Russia and the CCP), while Jewish extremism is seen as backing the conservative Israeli government's hardline approach to Palestine, Muslim's extremists are known for blowing up schools, Hindu extremists are known for murdering Muslims, Christian extremists are known for ... well, many many things.

Making excuses for one's own team is only human nature.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 26th 2020 at 12:19:49 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#329279: Sep 26th 2020 at 10:15:35 PM

For what it's worth, Shinto generally is a lifestyle philosophy. It was only really codified as a specific religion with State Shinto in the 1900s, and that... had its own problems attached, culturally.

It's been fun.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#329280: Sep 26th 2020 at 10:22:51 PM

Yeah, Shinto becoming a state religion was an Imperial Japan thing.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#329281: Sep 26th 2020 at 10:24:22 PM

A lot of religions in the world, the nonmonotheists in the world, also have no issue mixing and matching into an Interfaith Smoothie.

Prior to current governments, China especially just let you practice whatever elements you wanted.

A little buddhism, a little Taoism, some philosophies or two.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#329282: Sep 26th 2020 at 11:46:56 PM

"Born Shinto, marry Christian, die Buddhist" is a saying in Japan for a reason, one presumes.

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#329283: Sep 27th 2020 at 12:47:57 AM

CNN: Progressive activists are wary over criminal justice under a Biden-Harris administration

Key passages:

Nominee Joe Biden and California Sen. Kamala Harris, his running mate, have clashed with progressives over the years, seeding a distrust that the ongoing campaign is not attuned to their perspective. And though the Democratic ticket is the choice of most activists, Biden and Harris are still regarded warily by those pushing hardest for meaningful reforms to the criminal justice system.

In a series of interviews this summer, organizers told CNN their angst over the records of Biden, who wrote the 1994 crime bill, and Harris, a former prosecutor, along with the pair's outwardly supportive rhetoric for law enforcement, fuels their concerns about the future. And while Biden choosing Harris, a daughter of Indian and Jamaican immigrants, was in part a nod to influential Black women who wanted to see a reflection of themselves — Black and highly qualified— in the highest office in the land, the young activists said representation alone is not enough.

After a wide open primary that showcased the diversity of the Democratic Party, it ended with the nomination of the 78-year-old Biden, a moderate whose 1994 bill is often cited as one driver of mass incarceration, in part because of the "three strikes" law that ensured mandatory life terms for defendants with at least three federal violent crime or drug convictions.

The lack of enthusiasm for Biden and Harris points to deeper concerns over their ability to unite the party absent what many perceive as an existential threat posed by four more years of Trump. Demonstrators on the front line of a wildly invigorated social justice movement see movable objects in Biden and Harris, where the current administration looms like a stone wall blocking their push for change.

Neither Biden nor Harris support defunding the police, contrary to Trump's insistence otherwise. Biden has voiced support for conditioning federal aid to police based on behavior and Justice Department intervention against departments who violate civil rights standards. Harris has often said the US needs to "reimagine" public safety and how the police and the communities they serve interact but has said violent crime should stay the remit of trained officers.

And during her primary campaign, Harris released a plan that sought to end mandatory minimum sentences on the federal level, legalize marijuana, end the death penalty, and end the use of private prisons— a far cry from the policies she once enforced as California's attorney general and the district attorney for San Francisco, positions that led to her being labeled a "cop" by young Black activists.

Organizers have highlighted Biden's stance that "not all cops are bad cops" as part of their critique that the ticket has not engaged in enough "deep listening" from those who are victimized by the police. It is evidence, they say, that Biden and Harris are more concerned with pushing back on attacks from Trump and the GOP than representing their movement's priorities.

"It's very clear that what they're saying is completely opposite of what the movement is saying right now," Lane said.

"I would like to see them not talk down on the movement. Instead of making it seem outrageous, actually challenge themselves to listen and adopt them on a federal level to really gain confidence of the people," Lane said.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#329284: Sep 27th 2020 at 12:58:31 AM

Well yeah, I mean Harris has legitimate issues, her track record as a prosecutor is kinda tainted, which is why I was never too fond of her.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#329285: Sep 27th 2020 at 1:21:20 AM

One rather irritating line of thought that I've seen coming from some leftist quadrants, especially in the mid-2010s was that not just New Atheism but atheism in general was inherently anti-woman and anti-POC, and for a multitude of different reasons each time. For some it's because faith is a huge source of empowerment for black women, for others it's that religion is a source of morality that white men lack, and for others it's that religion and its associated folklore was a rich source of culture that white cishet men were too uncouth to appreciate. Also saw a lot of anti-intellectualist undertones at times, usually a mixture of Measuring the Marigolds and Romanticism Versus Enlightenment mindsets.

Personally I found it quite uncomfortable as while the older generations of my family are Shenist, my brother and I were raised to be nonbelievers by our atheist parents who found little reason to believe. And Chinese culture as a whole is not super invested in ideas of faith and sincerity of belief (in fact some of these superstitions can become quite inconvenient when interacting with those who believe too heavily in it, like people who lead their lives in strict accordance with feng shui). Though it's not unlikely Maoist China had something to do with my parents' lack of belief, the idea that POC are inherently more religious than "white" people and this is a good thing strikes me as hopelessly myopic, and a bit of a backhanded insult.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 27th 2020 at 4:47:33 AM

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#329286: Sep 27th 2020 at 1:41:03 AM

Let's hope the activists showing concern over Biden and Harris still plan to vote. Holes can be patched and pressure can be applied once we get the two of them into office and Trump's ass is out the door.

It's been fun.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#329287: Sep 27th 2020 at 2:05:17 AM

It's probably best to wait and see on that front. In a normal transition, we'd be looking at the nominee for Attorney General as a clue as to how the incoming administration is going to deal with issues such as these. So no reason why we can't do the same here.

I know that Doug Jones has been suggested in the past, on the likely assumption he doesn't retain his seat in the Senate. Someone who has prosecuted the Klan has probably got his priorities in order. Is there anyone else though that should be considered?

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#329288: Sep 27th 2020 at 2:21:13 AM

I think Adam Schiff would be a good pick based on the impeachment trial.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 27th 2020 at 5:21:23 AM

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#329289: Sep 27th 2020 at 4:58:59 AM

Schiff would be hilarious, but I wonder if he has his eyes on Harris' senate seat. That's going to be up for grabs should the Democrats win in November.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#329290: Sep 27th 2020 at 5:01:24 AM

He could always serve as AG for a few years then take Feinstein’s seat when she finally retires.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#329291: Sep 27th 2020 at 5:13:00 AM

About the Muhammad naming convention, this is a very popular name among Muslims, and Western countries after WWII encouraged migrant workers from places like Turkey and Morocco, which are majority Muslim countries. This is why you see a sudden surge in Muslim and African/Arabic names in Europe: many of those migrant workers decided to stay and have families, and are now often in their third or fourth generation.

Christians have similar naming conventions, really, it's just that they are less notable to us because these names have been so normalized. Who thinks of Peter or Paul as Biblical names these days?

Also, the "Muslims live in deserts" thing is probably mostly because that's where we tend to see them the most in the news and movies. Many people simply equate Muslim with Arabic, and Arabia with desert. This happens for all groups from the perspective of people living far from those groups and regions, it's not just Muslims.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 27th 2020 at 2:42:41 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Kardavnil The Polisci Majoris from Sweden Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: In my bunk
The Polisci Majoris
#329292: Sep 27th 2020 at 6:45:04 AM

[up] I'm reminded of an image I saw of somebody named Christian accusing muslim parents of "forcing" their religion onto their children, in response to seeing a soccer player named Islam. Cue people telling the guy to look at his own name... [lol]

Edited by Kardavnil on Sep 27th 2020 at 6:46:08 AM

Roll a Constitution saving throw to make it through the year.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#329293: Sep 27th 2020 at 7:45:06 AM

I kind of want Feinstein's seat to go to Katie Porter. She's such a skilled legislator and interrogator that it would be a crying shame if she was voted out in 2022 simply because her district reverts back to type without Donald Trump on the ballot to depress the Republican vote in California.

But hey, that's what primaries are for. Let them run in 2022 and may the best person win.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#329294: Sep 27th 2020 at 7:50:23 AM

I am agnostic, but I think the new atheist movement has discredited itself when several new atheists became alt right.

Guys like Carl Benjamin are pretty instrumental in making the atheist movement look bad:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/09/gamergate-carl-benjamin-ukip-mep

I also think Sam Harris has repeated some alt right talking points:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/3/27/15695060/sam-harris-charles-murray-race-iq-forbidden-knowledge-podcast-bell-curve

I think some new atheists have broken towards the left recently, but so many new atheists becoming alt right has damaged the movement.

If you disbelief in God, but replace God with anti feminism and racist pseudoscience, you are not replacing religion with a good moral code.

Now there are left atheists who belief in replacing God with community and fellowship to help the poor and defeat structural racism, those are the atheists I can respect.

Really being an atheist makes one no better or worse than anyone else, I have no problem with people who use religion to promote goals like helping the poor, there are good and bad atheists, there are good and bad religions people.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#329295: Sep 27th 2020 at 7:54:18 AM

[up][up][up]

Relevant, on the subject of names,it's Kate Hopkins complaining about names but every damn time someone complains about names this clip plays in my head

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 27th 2020 at 2:54:33 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#329296: Sep 27th 2020 at 8:39:52 AM

I shared a story of a former Christian fundamentalist girl who became an atheist and "actively atheist" because she assumed that it was a conflict between retrograde superstition, patriarchy, and toxic masculinity versus utopian Star Trek values of tolerance as well as progression.

This irritated me but I wouldn't wish what happened to her on anyone as she then attended a convention and was immediately overwhelmed with incredibly racist Bill Maher-esque speakers who said the Middle East should be carpet bombed to get rid of the subhumans, that sexism was genetically how we evolved, and constant sexual harassment.

As I said, "Whether you believe in God or not has no bearing on whether you're an asshole."

She ended up Wiccan. I'm not sure how serious she is about her beliefs but it's a community she loves.

This is relavent to US politics because the larger issues of sexism, racism and so on are built deeply into the social structure of the United States. Religion is just a disguise for the desire to protect the privilege of white male assholes.

If you disbelief in God, but replace God with anti feminism and racist pseudoscience, you are not replacing religion with a good moral code.

This statement saddens me.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 27th 2020 at 8:43:16 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#329297: Sep 27th 2020 at 8:53:24 AM

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson has officially endorsed Biden for president:

https://people.com/politics/dwayne-johnson-endorses-joe-biden-kamala-harris/

This may not seem like a big deal, but with Johnson being as influential as he is, he could very well get a lot of people to vote who otherwise might not have.

Bonus points for being a (former) Republican.

Edited by MrHellboy on Sep 27th 2020 at 10:56:47 AM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#329298: Sep 27th 2020 at 9:00:13 AM

[up][up]I wouldn't willingly associate with that kind of atheist any more than I would a racist or misogynist person of faith.

I'm an atheist and a woman and culturally/ethnically Jewish, why would I associate with someone who insults me simply for being who I am?

What makes me sad is if someone thinks that's all atheists. It's obviously not.

And I do take the 'treat other people as you would be treated' seriously, which means respecting people's faith and/or lack of faith where it's not infringing on anyone else's rights.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#329299: Sep 27th 2020 at 9:19:30 AM

I might suggest moving the religion discussion to the thread we have for that.

Leviticus 19:34
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#329300: Sep 27th 2020 at 9:40:10 AM

[up] Agreed.

Politics and Religion, in an ideal world, should be kept as far away as possible from one another.

They are practically "bleach" and "ammonia" on their own.

Mix them and you get toxic chloramine vapors.

Bad news all around.

So let this thread just have one of them to deal with, okay?


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