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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#328801: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:26:01 AM

[up] x 3 If Putin (his "best pal") offers it, expect Trump to buy the snake-oil, sell it to the people, and refuse to take any responsibility for the side-effects of said "vaccine" that pop up later.

Rule Number 1: Refuse everything Trump offers on the table.

It is all there is to it.

Edited by TitanJump on Sep 24th 2020 at 6:26:18 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328802: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:28:40 AM

Actually, if historical lynchings and executions are any indication, they wouldn't look the other way. They would be ringside spectators.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#328803: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:29:07 AM

What concerns me is she never responded to this tweet...

If they don't have enough votes (which they don't) then it doesn't matter what the precedent says, they'd get vetoed by the governors.

Someone still has to enforce the ruling that they can’t appoint their own electors that requires force. Even if it’s just putting the nominal ‘electors’ is holding cells for a couple days.

I have no idea why you think this. Vetoing their proposal would make it legally void. They wouldn't be electors, they'd just be random people with no legal authority and would be ignored.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#328804: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:30:07 AM

There’s also a chance that the Russian vaccine is just the Oxford vaccine (remember the data for the Oxford vaccine got stolen/copied), in which case it might well work fine without side-effects.

I have no idea why you think this. Vetoing their proposal would make it legally void. They wouldn't be electors, they'd just be random people with no legal authority and would be ignored.

Would they be ignored by Senate Republicans? Because that’s who’d get to decide. I’d much rather play it safe and never allow the random people to meet and sign a bit of paper than trust Senate Republicans not to listen to the inane ramblings of the Pennsylvania Republicans.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 24th 2020 at 4:32:29 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328805: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:31:01 AM

[up][up][up][up] Unfortunately, it is not that simple. For one, kids have no way to refuse a vaccine pushed on them by parents.

[up] Yeah, or it isn't. The problem is that we don't know. And that's a huge risk to take.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 24th 2020 at 6:32:05 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#328806: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:32:31 AM

And they would argue that the constitution gives them the right to, by precedent. I'm not saying there argument is right, I'm saying they'd draw it out, which is bad enough as is.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#328807: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:35:44 AM

Would they be ignored by Senate Republicans? Because that’s who’d get to decide. I’d much rather play it safe and never allow the random people to meet and sign a bit of paper than trust Senate Republicans not to listen to the inane ramblings of the Pennsylvania Republicans.

Senate Republicans have absolutely no say on what states do, whether they ignore it or not is functionally irrelevant to how efficacious it (won't) be.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#328808: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:36:53 AM

Senate Republicans are the ones who (alongside House Democrats) control the process of certifying the electoral college results.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328809: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:37:30 AM

They'd probably invoke their right to form a militia against their government.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#328810: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:39:55 AM

Senate Republicans are the ones who (alongside House Democrats) control the process of certifying the electoral college results.

And they're already distancing themselves from Trump trying to dispute the peaceful transference of power, because they understand that contesting it will not in-fact help them, quite the opposite.

With all due respect, this fear of Senate Republicans ignoring a Biden victory is entirely baseless, I see absolutely no evidence that it's credible.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 24th 2020 at 9:40:44 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#328811: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:41:08 AM

[up] Well that's a relief...

(...assuming any promises from the GOP were actually worth anything, that is,...)

...But I still hope this one is the one they can keep, at least.

Edited by TitanJump on Sep 24th 2020 at 6:41:32 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328812: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:47:35 AM

Well, we are certainly going to get an object lesson in who can and cannot do what in a US election very soon. This election is going to be in a textbook about constitutional law someday.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#328813: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:49:25 AM

(...assuming any promises from the GOP were actually worth anything, that is,...)

It is and isn't worth anything.

They're the opposite of trustworthy but they can be trusted to care about their self-interest and if they're opposing it then it suggests that they recognize that it won't be in their interests.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#328814: Sep 24th 2020 at 9:53:15 AM

So I talked to a friend who closely follows this sort of stuff and asked him what he thinks about the idea of Trump refusing to step down, and he said:

We're well past that. The risk now is that Trump pressures state legislatures to compel their electors to vote for him even if the popular vote in the state goes towards Biden.

I'm worried we may be facing a period of our history far more analogous to the lead up to the American Revolution than the Civil War.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#328815: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:02:20 AM

When I've heard speculation about whether or not Trump and the Republicans in general try to circumvent the election results, the idea that I've heard that is far more likely is that they are trying to cultivate a 2000 scenario and get the courts (which have been packed in favor of the Right) to decide in their favor.

All of the flak about voter fraud and mail-in ballots are pretty closely connected to that at least impart to setup another vote count dispute.

ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#328816: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:05:41 AM

What I've been reading about is that Trump is planning to circumvent the electoral college by pressuring state legislatures to appoint "loyal electors" who will commit to him regardless of whether he wins the states' votes or not.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#328817: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:06:27 AM

What are the chances that, if Trump loses, he'll just leave in a huff going, "Fine, I didn't want this job anyway"?

i'm tired, my friend
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328818: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:08:32 AM

I really don't know what Republicans will think is in their self-interest at this point. They certainly acknowledge that their praty is on the way out, and they are fighting it tooth and nail. Perhaps they consider it an all or nothing scenario.

[up] Very low, at least at first. He is going to fight to the bitter end to stay in power, even if he appears to have lost.

Trump likely feels cornered, both legally and personally, and will probably feel he can't back down at this point.

I think it will take Biden being inaugurated for him to stop trying.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 24th 2020 at 7:11:12 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#328819: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:10:13 AM

What I've been reading about is that Trump is planning to circumvent the electoral college by pressuring state legislatures to appoint "loyal electors" who will commit to him regardless of whether he wins the states' votes or not.

This has been addressed already, the States in question lack sufficient Republican control for that to be possible.

When I've heard speculation about whether or not Trump and the Republicans in general try to circumvent the election results, the idea that I've heard that is far more likely is that they are trying to cultivate a 2000 scenario and get the courts (which have been packed in favor of the Right) to decide in their favor.

This is much more possible, but it's not necessarily plausible. For the states to decide we need a close vote, and Biden's lead has been much too solid for that.

We shouldn't be complacent but we should also recognize what the evidence suggests.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#328820: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:10:30 AM

Really? I read a number of articles about it. And just because those states don't have sufficient Republican control now doesn't mean they won't after Election Day.

Edited by ElSquibbonator on Sep 24th 2020 at 1:12:25 PM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#328821: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:16:58 AM

That would require that the states somehow replace the Democrats in positions of power (if they're even up for election) with Republicans, without also somehow having enough Republican votes to elect Trump without needing to ignore the votes anyway.

Republicans cannot magically obtain extra power within states.

ElSquibbonator Since: Oct, 2014
#328822: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:18:41 AM

So why is the "loyal electors" idea so popular if it's basically impossible?

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#328823: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:19:14 AM

Because the Republicans have been openly talking about it and people have been reporting what they say?

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#328824: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:20:53 AM

"Why the hell did I do that?"

Trump only switched to supporting the First Step Act because senior officials told him it would help him with black voters in the election and grew furious and started yelling at his staff about what was the point when he found out it didn't do much for his poll numbers.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#328825: Sep 24th 2020 at 10:24:26 AM

The ‘loyal electors’ play only works if it can either by done legally in enough states (which it can’t due to Democrat wins in 2018) or if Senate Republicans will go along with it despite it being illegal (which Spartan has just shown they’re not interested in doing).

It’s popular online because Trump’s campaign are talking about it, because people aren’t getting all the information and because there are some people who are just desperate for an excuse to panic.

Mitch has distanced himself from the idea, it’s not going anywhere, probably because Senate Republicans know that the population of DC would both be very angry about a coup and have them surrounded.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 24th 2020 at 5:25:54 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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