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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#328501: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:22:27 PM

If every single white voter was re-enfranchised, I'd still support it, just want every black voter too.

Democracy must be everyone or it is meaningless.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#328502: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:25:42 PM

Short of shit like active rebellion or treason, or obtaining citizenship fraudulently, everyone should be able to vote.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#328503: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:27:37 PM

Felons included. I really don't see the downsides of felons voting, and denying their vote denies them a really basic human right.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#328504: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:27:42 PM

Some discussion on term limits.

This article raises the notion that to defeat Evil Turtle's plot liberals need to envisage scrapping or severely limiting judicial review. There is both precedents and a potential cudgel there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#328505: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:30:21 PM

Felons included. I really don't see the downsides of felons voting, and denying their vote denies them a really basic human right.

It solely is a method of disenfranchising black voters.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#328506: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:31:45 PM

Yeah, it's pretty much been mentioned. The practical effect of term limits is to change nothing except where institutional knowledge is accumulated.

And then people go "oh we removed term limits that should reduce corruption/increase accountability/make people need to care about their constituents!" which are all assertions based on nothing.

[up][up] Come on, a google scholar search isn't "some discussion", it's an uncurated reading list. tongue

Edited by RainehDaze on Sep 22nd 2020 at 9:32:12 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#328507: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:36:37 PM

[up]x3 Yeah, ignoring the Courts is a terrible idea. Not only does it leave Democrats in Congress and the White House open to Impeachment come a Republican sweep, it would also set precedent for Republicans to ignore the Courts as well (although to be honest, if we stack the Court they might do this anyways), and then we just have a useless Court that gives opinions that no one has to listen to (say, a Republican President that wants to defund Democratic Cities). Adding Justices to the Court is the easiest way to allow the Court to maintain power while at the same time not being stacked against the Majority of its Citizens.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#328508: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:37:54 PM

The problem with granting felons the right to vote is that you'll need to field the "you want to give pedophiles voting rights!" bitching. A lawmaker in California ate an internet hate campaign and some attacks on parliament floor for getting a comparatively minor change to what's effectively a placebo law, what do you expect the response to voting rights will be? Then again, Maine and Vermont have felon voting, so it's not totally unprecedented.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#328509: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:47:20 PM

You'll notice that both of those states have very few non-white people.


California has a law extending voting rights to people on parole on the ballot this November; it's called Proposition 17 and would enfranchise 50,000 people. Democratic states really need to move on re-enfranchising these people.

Edited by nova92 on Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:48:54 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#328510: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:50:44 PM

Not in jails, last I checked Vermont has one of the worst racial biases in the US when it comes to incarceration.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#328511: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:55:40 PM

The problem is that the GOP is undermining democracy. If the other guy cheats at a game, then the only winning move is to also cheat. Not cheating simply invites defeat.

The problem with that is you're assuming the referees are treating both sides the same. If they're ignoring one side's cheating, but still calling the other's fouls, cheating back only pjts your players in the penalty box.

The refs in this scenario are the media and/or voters.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#328512: Sep 22nd 2020 at 1:59:52 PM

I expect that enfranchisement of prisoners would need to be limited to non-violent prisoners who committed non-electoral offences (if you’re in jail for voter fraud I’m okay with you not voting).

One issue however is where you register them. Do you registers all the inmates in a prison in the district the prison is in? Or should they register at their home outside of prison (assuming they have one) and do a mail-in-ballot?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#328513: Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:01:04 PM

Same as college students, let them decide?

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#328514: Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:01:55 PM

Prison, probably; the prison populations get counted for districting.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#328515: Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:08:15 PM

I expect that enfranchisement of prisoners would need to be limited to non-violent prisoners who committed non-electoral offences (if you’re in jail for voter fraud I’m okay with you not voting).
Say, does "resisting arrest" count as a violent offence? Like, not morally, but whenever they bring up statistics of "violent offenders"?

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#328516: Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:14:45 PM

A quick google makes be believe that the resistance would need to at a level to qualify as assault (in this case assaulting an officer) to qualify as a violent crime.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#328517: Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:17:37 PM

Yeah, I still have some concerns about that.

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#328518: Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:38:28 PM

I think you'd want to have prisoners registered to vote at their last known address. You don't want "prison constituencies" like you have university constituencies. But then again, maybe the fact that you have a block of people, in one place, all registered to vote - might actually force politicians to take prison reform seriously if they actually have some political heft.

Then again, I'm reminded about my ex's mother. Lovely woman who has probably casted dozens of votes for the Dutch People's Union. Mainly because she worked as a clinical psychologist in one of the secure hospitals / high security prisons in the Netherlands and as such agreed to act as a proxy voter for many of her patients.

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#328519: Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:41:51 PM

Quick sidenote for those not aware: the Dutch People's Union are neo-nazis. Assuming that said mother only voted for them as a proxy, I admire her integrity.

Imca (Veteran)
#328520: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:12:54 PM

I... am not really sure about voting in prison, though I do think that once you are done with prison your rights, all of them, should instantly be re-instated, regardless of what they are, and not so popularly regardless of your crime.

Prison is supposed to be the punishment itself, I would be happier with it being rehabilitation and very much want it to be, but either way that is the consequence of your actions, and once you are done with your prison sentence... well ideally that should be your debt to society being paid.

Nothing more should come of it after, hell I would prefer if at that point all records of what you did were expunged, maybe only maintained by the state to figure out if your a repeat offender, but even then I don't agree with them even turning up in a background check since at that point they are just going to be used to fuck over your employment prospects.

...

Seriously why is it that people insist on dragging out a punishment long after the punishment was supposed to have have been completed.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#328521: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:15:52 PM

Last time I checked Maine and Vermont already let prisoners vote. How does it work out for them?

Edited by LSBK on Sep 22nd 2020 at 5:16:04 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#328522: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:16:05 PM

Seriously why is it that people insist on dragging out a punishment long after the punishment was supposed to have have been completed.

It's the people on top of the ladder creating something for those on the middle rungs to look down on, to keep those middle rungs from looking up instead.

My musician page
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#328523: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:16:05 PM

That is a conception of prison as punitive, not reformative.

I would argue you cannot be shown how to reintegrate to a society if you are completely walled off from it in any means of participation.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Imca (Veteran)
#328524: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:20:20 PM

[up]Ehhh I see it less as that and more as a mater of if you are trying to re-integrate some one you can't give them every responsibility back at once, and with the heavy consequences democracy has it should be one of the later ones in the process... though very much part of the process and not walled off forever due to stupid fucking tecnhicalities.

[up][up] So yet another class based problem :/

Edited by Imca on Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:20:59 AM

Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#328525: Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:26:48 PM

"Seriously why is it that people insist on dragging out a punishment long after the punishment was supposed to have have been completed."

There's this stigma where being in prison means you have a record, ergo, you'll always be a filthy criminal no matter how clean you claim to be.

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.

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