TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#328251: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:21:25 PM

IIRC the catholic church is opposed to sterilization, and I know they're at least some major force opposing abortion.

For myself, an anti-abortion conservative (though I try to avoid the 'pro-life' label because it sounds hippy-dippy-ish), I'm appalled by forced sterilization. Having said that, I consider my distaste largely orthogonal to my opinion on abortion and don't see the issues as connected.

Leviticus 19:34
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#328252: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:23:12 PM

[up] tricksterson already said it wasn't directed at any conservatives in here.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#328253: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:27:20 PM

It is hardly axiomatic that the candidate who wins a primary is the best possible one for the general election... it's impossible to prove, for one thing.

It's also irrelevant to the question. "What if X had won instead?" Well, X didn't win, so the hypothetical is pointless.

Exactly, pointing to the primary results as evidence that other candidates are intriniscally weaker is questionable at best.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#328254: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:28:16 PM

The thing that always gets me about these conversations is that at no point I don't think anyone said you should be fully happy about Biden or not want more.

So it comes off as bunch of people preaching to the choir, then the choir telling them they already get it, and yet the preaching still goes on.

Sorry if that comes off rudely, but that's honestly the best way I could put it, because I never get why these discussions keep going on for as long as they do.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328255: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:29:13 PM

I think you're massively overstating the awareness of global warming there. It simply was not an issue 200 years ago, and it only became one 50 years ago. Heck, scientists were still considering global cooling back then.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#328256: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:34:09 PM

@Silasw, Manchin released a statement saying "For the sake of the integrity of our courts and legal system, I do not believe the U.S. Senate should vote on a U.S. Supreme Court nominee before the November 3rd election." Probably as good as we can expect from him.

devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#328257: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:37:53 PM

[up][up]Global warming started 200 years ago. Meaning by the time we figured it out in the 60's, we were 140 years behind on shedule.

[up][up][up]Funny cause i get massive pushback when i point out i'm not happy with biden. It started with talk about people not being happy with biden.

Edited by devak on Sep 21st 2020 at 10:39:09 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#328258: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:42:23 PM

It started with this:

I'm not sure why progressives should be *happy* that decade-old ideas being heavily watered down are mainstream. It's basically the bare minimum of progress when we need to be so much more. More than ever the planet is screaming to get our shit together, the Pandemic showed that half of anti-progressive rhetoric was just contrarian feet-dragging and that we *can* just make sweeping changes and pay for it, just like that.

It's like being happy you're 20th and not last, it's nice i guess but we need to be top 3 to get a medal.

And the point still stands, because no one has claimed that things are anywhere good enough. Even if you do feel that way, I'm not sure what's hard to understand with the idea that people could be happy about any progress even while acknowledging you still have to keep going.

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#328259: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:53:52 PM

I made another donation to Biden/Harris today.

Do not obey in advance.
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#328260: Sep 21st 2020 at 1:57:22 PM

"Everything is on the table" seems to be the new go-to phrase for Democrats, hedging between not definitively ruling something out and not committing to it entirely.

devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#328261: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:04:52 PM

[up][up][up]It was already talked about for several pages for that, about progressives not being happy with biden. But pointing out that there's no reason for them to actually like him, is still generating pushback *right now*.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328262: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:07:56 PM

Global warming started 200 years ago, sure, but that is not the same as people being aware of it, or seeing it as a problem. Also, just because it started 200 years ago does not mean people could have predicted where it would go, or have the knowledge and means to do something about it.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#328263: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:13:51 PM

Again, this changes absolutely nothing about the basic facts. We're behind all the same. The planet doesn't care, if we never figured it out we'd still have the problem. The longer we wait, the more extreme the change, the more costly it becomes. The cheapest option would've been to never dig up the oil in the first place. Barring that, transitioning to not using fossil fuels is second best, an option we're still barely investing in, and we're 60 years past knowing that it's an issue.

We're 200 years behind on the CO 2 emissions. Knowing or not knowing doesn't change that. We could've done more than twiddle our thumbs, more than missing the climate targets we already watered down twice.

But apparently it takes every disaster movie cliche in the past 20 years happening in 2020 for us to get some change. Why should we be *exited* for that?

Edited by devak on Sep 21st 2020 at 11:15:26 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#328264: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:17:09 PM

I mean, it changes things in what you could reasonably blame us for not doing. If we only learned about the long term affects 50 or 60 years ago, it doesn't make a lot of sense to start going we should have been doing all of these things long before we could have possibly known about the problems.

The situation is legitimately bad enough that it is that you can fairly critique things without going into illogical arguments like that.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#328265: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:21:06 PM

I don't see much point to saying things like "we're behind x hundred years", it's not like doing nothing for multiple decades isn't a damning indictment of our political and socio-economic system.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#328266: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:21:46 PM

I don't really think people need to be excited for Biden as long as they vote, but I also think people (not necessarily anyone here) sometimes overplay the degree to which he's a milquetoast centrist who will be Obama 2.0. To be fair it wasn't that unreasonable to expect that in the beginning, but that really doesn't seem to be the case anymore. It might not be the radical change people want or something they feel excited about, but it does show that Biden is malleable and can and should be pressured to adopt more leftist positions going forward.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#328267: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:21:56 PM

Re: climate change — It is nonsensical to blame people for things they could not possibly have known about. Once they knew about it, though, you can start blaming them.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 21st 2020 at 5:22:10 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#328268: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:26:23 PM

Looks like the public wants to wait until after the election for replacing Ruth Bader Ginsburg. However, what actually matters is Evil Turtle's plotting and so far it seems like he's inclined to fast track.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#328269: Sep 21st 2020 at 2:27:15 PM

@nova92, Cheers for that.

The thing that always gets me about these conversations is that at no point I don't think anyone said you should be fully happy about Biden or not want more.

Yeah my entire point was to try and shutdown the idea that often circulates online that Biden and Harris represent a step backwards, just a smaller step backwards than Trump.

Biden and Harris are a step forwards, now that fact can itself be rather disturbing, I don’t like the fact that someone with Harris’ record on trans-rights is a step forward, it show how behind we are as a society, but it’s still true.

"Everything is on the table" seems to be the new go-to phrase for Democrats, hedging between not definitively ruling something out and not committing to it entirely.

So far everything seems to be procedural or legislative threats, I’d be up for all sorts of practical shenanigans at this point. How much delay time do you think senate democrats could generate if they repeatedly pull the fire alarm and force the Capitol Building to be evacuated? tongue

Oh and the Attila the Hun comment I missed, it sounds similar to the adage in British politics that when someone becomes Home Secretary (the minister in charge of policing) they move to the right of Genesis Khan.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 21st 2020 at 9:29:03 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#328270: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:12:10 PM

[up], course, for our current Home Secretary that would be an improvement - but probably something for the appropriate thread.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#328271: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:18:14 PM

Amusingly, Ghengis Khan was somewhat egalitarian for the day in many respects. Admittedly I'm not sure I'd call him 'leftist' per se, and the left-right dichotomy didn't precisely exist back then since hierarchies were primarily determined by tradition and de jure position of birth.

Leviticus 19:34
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#328272: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:18:52 PM

... The police in England is ravaging and pillaging the countryside, burning cities in their wake? I knew Brexit was bad, but I never knew it was this bad.

[up] Egalitarian for his own group, maybe. He wasn't so egalitarian to foreigners, though.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 21st 2020 at 12:20:19 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#328273: Sep 21st 2020 at 3:32:03 PM

Depends on how you define foreigners, actually. Genghis Khan was very happy to bring you into the Mongols and let you keep what you kill. Yes, I just compared them to the Necromongers but the Mongols grew from tribe to Empire because anyone could join if they were willing to throw themselves into the system.

Genghis knew that most people didn't object to conquest and mass murder. They just objected to being the subject of it.

I also fully believe this is true alongside the fact he was one of history's worst mass murderers.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#328274: Sep 21st 2020 at 5:13:06 PM

https://twitter.com/i/events/1308156684284514304

Louisville is prepping for a state of emergency when they announce whether they intend to charge the cops in the Breona Taylor case.

Yeah, I think we can guess what they're going to be announcing.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#328275: Sep 21st 2020 at 5:41:14 PM

"Folks, we're not saying you're gonna riot when you hear this, but just in case..."

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Total posts: 417,856
Top