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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Ginsberg's death is disastrous, thankfully we're starting to see Dems pushing the necessary response.
Kennedy
and Markey
have explicitly come out in favor of court packing. And Schumer
has transparently signaled that it's not unacceptable ("nothing is off the table").
There's hope for our democracy and progress in the United States yet.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 19th 2020 at 1:11:17 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang![]()
Dude, if you can guarantee that just going hog wild with adding more justices won't cost us Congress in the very next election, by all means let us know and we will write a letter to Chuck Schumer.
While we're at it, can you guarantee us that we will retake the Senate right now? Because that's still a thing we need to do.
This isn't a fight that stops at the Supreme Court. If it comes to it, I am all in for adding more justices. I'm more for adding more justices, doing a massive PR campaign to keep the public on our side, ensuring voting rights are protected, and mobilizing Democrats to keep showing up in elections to make sure all this work isn't for nothing the moment moderates and young voters sit out midterms.
Edited by Parable on Sep 19th 2020 at 1:13:16 AM
That's not a reasonable expectation of evidence. Failing to pack the courts is the difference between fighting Climate Change, expanding democracy, and introducing a national healthcare system. If Democrats let fear of electoral consequences stop them from doing what's necessary then they will have blood on their hands, not just here but in the rest of the world too.
It's easy and rather cheap to say "fuck optics" when you are not a politician who has to actually deal with those optics.
And you can deride public opinion all you want, it still matters. If you throw all caution to the wind, optics be damned, expect to be punished for it by your own side.
Let me repeat that: Democratic voters will absolutely punish a Democratic administration if they think they have gone too far. You can't get around that.
Also, remember that you live in a democracy. What the public thinks does matter for a democratic system. When you start seriously disregarding public opinion, that is a road to dictatorship.
Edited by Redmess on Sep 19th 2020 at 10:19:24 AM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesI wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the constant whinging about how we shouldn't pack the courts because it'll make the Democrats look bad.
Does it matter more than preventing the nigh-erasure of civil rights?
You can crow about optics all you want, this is just an egg Dems will have to break lest what I just described comes to pass.
Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 19th 2020 at 4:22:33 AM
i'm tired, my friendWell, for the sake of argument, let's go with the obvious: sucking it up and legislate like normally. I don't know too much about how the process works, but as I understand it, the SC only comes into play when the question of certain legislation being constitutional comes up. So that means that stuff like gun control are out for now, but it's not like they could take every bit of Democrat legislation all the way to the SC, right?
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I never said we shouldn't. Quite the contrary. I already said that it is necessary.
The problem is doing it without blowing up in the Democrats' face in four years.
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I don't see any other option. I just think this option is a very risky one.
Seriously guys, read my posts and please stop jumping to conclusions about what I think.
Edited by Redmess on Sep 19th 2020 at 10:27:58 AM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesSpartan: You should read my post again. I want to add more justices. But I want to do it in a way that doesn't cost us electorally because all that stuff we want to do or protect won't come to fruition if we lose Congress two years from now. Half a term isn't long enough to get everything we want done.
Fuck the optics. This is an actual war against neo-nazis trying to take over your government. The only way to stop them is with a strong response to their evil. It's time for the Democrats to stand up for themselves, point at the Republicans and loudly tell everyone that those assholes are trying to destroy democracy, remove minority rights and are following a white supremacist agenda.
Can I ask where the idea that Dems packing the courts will cause significant chunks of their base to turn on them in the first place? Because it seems more likely that looking like they aren't doing enough to the wake of this vacancy would do more than less in that regard.
Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 19th 2020 at 4:30:41 AM
i'm tired, my friend
x6 If the Democrats institute rule changes, a bunch of laws that have been sitting on Mc Connell's desk that have been needing to go through, and basically destroy the immoral systems Republicans use to get into office...can they get into office again?
Edited by ScubaWolf on Sep 19th 2020 at 4:31:10 AM
"In a move surprising absolutely no one"![]()
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I think it will cost the Dems electorally if they pack the courts without being able to sell it to their voters. That part will be crucial. You can't just disregard optics, because that means disregarding voters, and again, you still live in a democracy where what your voters think of you matters.
Edited by Redmess on Sep 19th 2020 at 10:33:50 AM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesYeaahhh... I think you have a point.
The reason the Republicans can afford to fight dirty and we can't is because we have a voter base who actually cares about that shit. There's a small but significant subset of our base who will stay home or vote third party if they're disappointed with the Dem candidate's actions.
Republican voters aren't like that. They will, without any hestitation, show up in droves to vote for you on Election Day, as long as you a) have an R next to your name, and B) are anti-abortion.
That's why we tend to struggle so much. Overall, we outnumber Republicans, but our voters are far more fickle.
Edited by TyeDyeWildebeest on Sep 19th 2020 at 4:49:53 AM
No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!![]()
Four. Personally, I'm still feeling a bit skittish about this whole thing, so maybe it would be better to go with two, for a 6-5 towards conservative-appointed judges.
It would take the edge of in selling it to the public, as opposed to packing until we got a majority, and considering that the conservative judges have already shown to be somewhat willing to honour the law over party loyalty, it might be enough to diminish the damage being done now.
Edited by Kayeka on Sep 19th 2020 at 11:05:25 AM

Except they aren’t being unlawful a lot of the time, they’re just being dirty. And again, they love that the Dems won’t “stoop to their level” - it means they get to keep winning. And keeping some notion of fair play alive when your opponent clearly doesn’t, and is winning, and is extremely dangerous to democracy and numerous vulnerable groups of your citizenry, is just insane. You’re losing the fight because you don’t want to knee your assailant in the balls while he’s stabbing you.
"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."