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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#327876: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:00:58 AM

[up][up][up] We add more, change rules on things the Republicans have broken. Change the honor system into an actual rules system. And then make it so adjusting them in the future requires a 3/4 majority in the Senate. Lock it up to where it can no longer be abused by anybody, and changing the rules would require such a majority that there's no point in changing them.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Sep 19th 2020 at 1:01:46 PM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#327877: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:01:20 AM

And sure, you as a Democrat can justify it, but Republican voters are going to see that differently. They will see it as an abuse of power

Like it'd make a difference. They called Obama a ruthless dictator despite him bending over backwards to try to compromise with Republicans.

They will hate us and demonize us no matter what we do.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#327878: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:02:30 AM

[up][up] Pretty sure that the "this requires a 3/4 majority" thing wouldn't stick. It'd still be something that could be overridden by a simple majority.

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#327879: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:07:31 AM

[up] It's better than letting another villain like Mc Connell do whatever he wants by breaking the rules.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#327880: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:09:45 AM

3/5ths (60 Votes) would be much better then 3/4ths (75 Votes), but both would only make the most boring, middle of the road justices possible. 51 is a perfect number of votes needed, especially if we want to do away with the Filibuster. I'd also be for removing the Vice President's ability to break a tie for Court Appointments, as it's apparently never been done before, but that might require a Constitutional Amendment so we can just ignore that.

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#327881: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:10:49 AM

Well, one thing is for certain.

If the GOP are going to keep sliding out on the slippery slope into fascism and a dictatorship that they are so hellbent on getting, there will be a violent uprising in the future with the sole purpose to stop and remove them from their offices.

"Politicians are chosen by the people to serve the people and if they can't even do that, then the people have every right to remove them from those positions, by the "Second Amendment Rights" if necessary."

Because they (the GOP) have already proven time and time again that they really can't act responsible in any way, shape, or form, when it comes to power.

(And when I say "violent", I do mean "violent", as some people only have that much patience to burn before they hit their breaking point upon suffering indignation and indignation from these insufferable, self-entitled, political hacks that are the GOP.)

(Yes, inciting violence is wrong in all forms, but it's not like one can stop a volcano from erupting when the time comes and the signs are all there, All I'm doing here, is just pointing out that there's smoke coming out from the crater and nothing else. That's all.)

(Just wanted to clarify that.)

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#327882: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:15:43 AM

[up][up] Think the point was about trying to prevent changing the rules, not how many votes are needed to confirm.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#327883: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:23:56 AM

I have no faith the courts that gave us Shelby County v. Holder won't just find a backwards reasoning.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#327884: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:27:19 AM

Graham has all but said he wants to fill the seat this year. His 2016 comments don't matter anymore.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#327885: Sep 19th 2020 at 10:37:42 AM

The only thing his hypocrisy is useful for is to help Jaime Harrison

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#327886: Sep 19th 2020 at 11:59:00 AM

Democrats Blow Through All-Time Donation Records at ActBlue Following Justice Ginsburg’s Death

Democratic donors took action at a record-setting pace in the hours after Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s death on Friday night.

According to the New York Times, the nonprofit fundraising platform Act Blue broke single-hour donation records during the 9 p.m hour by hitting the $6.2 million mark and then again during the 10 p.m. hour by amassing another $6.3 million.

The record-shattering marks meant more than $100,000 per minute was collected by the left-leaning online group, the most since August 20 when the site saw their previous record set at $4.3 million during the final night of the Democratic National Convention.

One group, Get Mitch or Die Trying, created by Crooked Media which donates to Democratic candidates in 13 tightly contested Senate races, saw a burst of cash. The group’s founder and former member of the Obama administration, Tommy Vietor, tweeted about the nearly $6 million raised by 1:31 a.m. eastern time.

Seems the silver lining is that this turn of events really lit a fire under the Democratic voter base's collective ass.

If this doesn't get the Dems to turn out this election, nothing will.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#327887: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:08:34 PM

I've been on the fence about court packing for about as long as it's been a subject in this thread, but with this turn of events I'm firmly in the Packing camp. If Trump is able to appoint a third goddamn justice and form a conservative super majority on the court, then we are officially out of time and alternatives. Packing the court will be absolutely necessary to the long term survival of the country.

That said, there will absolutely be consequences for court packing, and we can't afford to pretend there won't be and fail to address them. Some kind of actual written rules and requirements for who nominees, new requirements to the nomination/confirmation process, maybe even requiring confirmation from the House in addition to the Senate, etc., to blunt the Republicans' ability to pack it right back.

We also have to be prepared for this to cost a lot of political capital and public opinion. Packing the court being no functionally different than what the Republicans have done doesn't matter to laypeople, the optics do. And the optics of creating a bunch of new seats on the court in rapid succession are much worse than the optics of filling a bunch of vacated existing seats in shady ways, especially given the gross double standard that our media and culture treats the Left and Right with. Even arguing that it's no different from the Republicans stealing seats and brute forcing appointments through will feed the both-sider idiots.

It's a bullet we have no choice but to bite. But it's also a bullet we have be to ready for the Republicans to try and shoot us with at every opportunity thereafter, and plan ahead for that.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#327888: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:20:20 PM

Turnout doesn't matter much if the ballots are thrown out or "lost". Dems should use some of that money to organize and protect voting accessibility measures. Footing the bill for ballot drop boxes and security if that's legal, campaigns informing voters of how to ensure their absentee ballots get counted otherwise. Set up sites where voters can come in and get witness signatures in states where that's a requirement.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#327889: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:20:32 PM

[up][up][up]If/when the appointment actually goes through, dems might be demoralized however. Doomsaying and all that...

Edited by Medinoc on Sep 19th 2020 at 9:20:44 PM

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327890: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:21:51 PM

[up][up][up] Right, and the optics do matter, public opinion does matter, much as many here have a distaste for that. Packing the court will be a hollow victory if Democrats can't sell it to voters and if it scares centrists into voting Republican (not necessarily Trump) in the next elections in 2 or 4 years.

[up] You really don't need to doomsay to be demoralized by that situation.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 19th 2020 at 9:23:20 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#327891: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:38:20 PM

Honestly, can we shut up about "but think of the optics!" already? All that does is make Dems handle all of the Republicans' BS with kid gloves and things rarely, if ever, change for the better.

Fuck the optics, do or die.

i'm tired, my friend
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#327892: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:42:53 PM

The simple fact is that Republicans don't play "by the rules" - they use every opportunity to rig the system in their favour whenever they have that ability, and Dems need to do it back, hard.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Voltron64 Since: Jul, 2016
#327893: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:44:16 PM

[up][up] Damn right, if anything the GOP would fold like a pair of cards if they were stood up to like they never had been before.

Edited by Voltron64 on Sep 19th 2020 at 3:36:10 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#327894: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:44:20 PM

Optics are important because we want our victories to last. That shouldn't mean do nothing, it should mean whatever we do, do it smartly so it doesn't blow back in our faces the next election cycle.

The Senate Democrats had an emergency conference call and Schumer said this: "Let me be clear: if Leader Mc Connell and Senate Republicans move forward with this, then nothing is off the table for next year. Nothing is off the table."

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#327895: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:45:54 PM

It just hit me,Ruth's request for a new judge to be chosen once a new president is elected means in addition to getting a new present elected they also get a new judge chosen, giving democrat voters even more of an incentive to vote.

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 19th 2020 at 7:46:21 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#327896: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:52:37 PM

Oh, no, Republicans very much play "by the rules." Mitch has rarely if ever actually broken one. It's just thoe rules are terrible and in their favor. Garland? Nothing in the rules said Mitch had to hold a vote. The judicial filibuster? The rules said he could get rid of it.

We kind of avoid admitting that the rules allow for bad faith actors to sabotage them. And it's startlingly easy to do so

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#327897: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:54:13 PM

[up][up][up] Impotently protesting while the GOP systematically dismantles your democracy is hardly good optics as it stands, and they absolutely love that the Dems still cling to the “they go low, we go high” principle because that just means they keep winning.

[up]I wasn’t referring to the letter of the rules, I was referring to the democratic principle of not screwing over your opposition’s chances of winning while in office.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Sep 19th 2020 at 8:56:35 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#327898: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:55:39 PM

But we can't stoop down to their level.

Starting to be outright unlawful for the greater good is a very slippery slope.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#327899: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:57:42 PM

Honestly, can we shut up about "but think of the optics!" already? All that does is make Dems handle all of the Republicans' BS with kid gloves and things rarely, if ever, change for the better.

Fuck the optics, do or die.

I... believe that's exactly what I said? We have to do this regardless of the optics. But that doesn't mean the optics aren't there, and won't have consequences that we have to plan ahead for.

Edited by Wryte on Sep 19th 2020 at 12:58:29 PM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#327900: Sep 19th 2020 at 12:58:13 PM

[up]x2 There's nothing unlawful about adding Justices or removing Senatorial tools, though.


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