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KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#327476: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:22:02 PM

For what I get, the issue of USA is less a bad program and more that not many people ensures it's well applied. Leading to very wild disparities

Watch me destroying my country
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#327477: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:25:02 PM

We DO NOT speak of the War of 1812, where the Brits kicked our asses out of Canada. Didn't happen. Britain never recovered from the stomping we gave them in the American Revolution, and certainly would never dare fight us again.

I thought if anything, Americans would tout over their apparent victory in the War of 1812, as "DLC for the American Revolution", much like how some Canadians always flaunt the War of 1812 as "The time we prevailed over those pompous Americans" (the truth being that nobody got anything and everything turned to the status quo).

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327478: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:25:33 PM

Is the Iran nuclear deal even on the table at this point? I haven't heard about that in a while.

And we probably need a new climate accord, one countries like the US can't just walk away from. Institute a billion dollar penalty for walking out, or something.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#327479: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:27:38 PM

I get mixed up over about what parts of US history I learned in school and which parts I picked up from library books, but we definitely covered Native American genocide and the hypocrisy of Founders having slaves at least by middle school. Our textbooks ran 'til the end of Reconstruction, and it covered that, too. Elementary school education was a lot more problematic, IIRC, though.

[up][up][up] Yeah, that's definitely a big part of it. State and local governments have a lot of power over how history and other subjects is taught and there's a wide variance in how accurate/well done it is.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#327480: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:27:55 PM

The probken with that idea is either no country would sign it or they would walk away and refuse to pay the fine.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#327481: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:28:54 PM

[up][up]As for the War of 1812 I remember learning about the whole "burning down the White House" bit in history class.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nerevarine Since: Mar, 2016
#327482: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:29:19 PM

We DO NOT speak of Northerners, including our Founding Fathers, owning slaves. Slavery was exclusively a practice in the Confederate States, which Northern Whites valiantly extinguished.

Given how the right tries very hard to dress up the civil war as a matter of "states rights" I wager they'd barely mention slavery at all. Remember how hard Trump tries to defend the Confederate flag and confederate monuments.

As for me, I got the "states rights" curriculum myself, along with no info whatsoever about the second half of the cold war or just about anything post 1960s.

Edited by Nerevarine on Sep 17th 2020 at 6:35:44 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#327483: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:30:33 PM

Think about how many people even bother paying attention when it comes time to elect the school board. Or really, any local elections.

Edited by M84 on Sep 17th 2020 at 9:30:54 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#327484: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:31:06 PM

A lot of political capital was spent just getting everyone to agree to Paris, and that was the bare minimum for climate commitments. No way is anyone going to get together to cobble together another one any time soon. Our best option is for Biden to double down on our commitments and encourage others to do the same.

If Biden wins, then the whole leaving the agreement thing is effectively annulled.

Falrinn Since: Dec, 2014
#327485: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:31:35 PM

[up][x4 Yeah, the war of 1812 was definitely taught to me in school. It's just that the focus was on the British incursions into the US during the war, which allows it to be framed as an American victory since those incursions were unsuccessful.

Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#327486: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:32:52 PM

Alright, the election has officially become too interesting to ignore and pretend isn't happening.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#327487: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:33:17 PM

I recall my class covering 1812 as we went to war, got Washington burned, wiped the floor with the British at New Orleans only to find out the war was already over by then, and everything went back to the way it was.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#327488: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:33:28 PM

[up]x5 Why most of these things are even elected in the first place...

A glorified popularity contest is not a good method for choosing who runs schools!

Edited by RainehDaze on Sep 17th 2020 at 2:33:41 PM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327489: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:36:36 PM

Some of these ideas also live on on the left. People get very antsy when you start examining the founding fathers too closely, and that happens on the left too.

I had my education in the Netherlands, and as such I didn't learn a thing about the US in high school beyond their role in WWII (which was just one aspect of many, many things we learned about WWII, which was kinda run into the ground by our history books), the cold war, and our final exam theme was the Vietnam War, which was plenty critical of the US.

And then came American Studies at university, and oh boy did they not spare the US. After two years of that it is kind of hard to still see the US as a positive force in the world.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#327490: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:37:51 PM

Why on earth would you view any country as a positive force in the world? Like anything else humanly made, it's an inherently self-centred entity. Sometimes the priorities are just better.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327491: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:40:18 PM

The Europeans did after WWII. And then the US spent the next seven decades slowly squandering that goodwill with the rest of the world, and now we have Trump, and everyone despises the US.

So uh, problem solved?

Edited by Redmess on Sep 17th 2020 at 3:40:58 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#327492: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:40:50 PM

And it's not like the other competitors for the position of "top dog" in the world are any better.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327493: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:41:55 PM

The US used to be better, is the point. And we much rather would have a US we can look up to than one we have to despise in favour of the likes of China.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
astrokitty Happiness is a cup of tea from Somewhere Out There Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Happiness is a cup of tea
#327494: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:42:14 PM

I think my school system kinda glossed over the War of 1812, but stuff like the horrific mistreatment of Native Americans and the hypocrisy of the civil war and Reconstruction Era did get covered. Interestingly, my high school also covered stuff like Standard Oil and the incredibly shady actions tycoons like Rockefeller took to make it on top.

Somebody once told me the world was macaroni, I took a bite out of a tree
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#327495: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:44:51 PM

It doesn't help that the Kremlin and the CCP have also been getting worse over the years. They've also been becoming more authoritarian and nationalistic - and they were pretty damn nationalistic in the first place. Putin's recently changed the constitution to ensure he can effectively be President for Life in Russia. The CCP's actively engaging in a genocide campaign and pretty much abandoned any pretense when it comes to Hong Kong.

Edited by M84 on Sep 17th 2020 at 9:47:08 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327496: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:45:05 PM

By the way, as a disclaimer, my high school history effectively pre-dates 9/11, even though it was technically still taught after 2001. Back then, WWII was still basically considered the most important thing to teach about history. I'm not kidding when I say they ran that topic into the ground until I was sick of hearing about it, year in year out.

Priorities are probably starting to shift a little these days.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 17th 2020 at 3:46:26 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#327497: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:48:33 PM

It's a sign of how bad things are right now that the USA could still be argued to be better than its competition. Since even though the USA has definitely been going down a bad road in the last several years...so have they.

Though really, that's in part due to the general wave of nationalism that swept the world several years ago.

Edited by M84 on Sep 17th 2020 at 9:50:40 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327498: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:49:47 PM

Actually, it is starting to be considered worse than China or Russia, or at least Trump is.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#327499: Sep 17th 2020 at 6:53:58 PM

That very much depends on how much one actually cares about the actions of Russia and China.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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