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3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#327176: Sep 15th 2020 at 1:52:31 AM

Exposure is all the pay they need

"You can reply to this Message!"
Imca (Veteran)
#327177: Sep 15th 2020 at 3:36:00 AM

TBH I can not be convinced that the use of russian planes was any thing but malicious from some one along the chain, out of all the aircraft in the world.... russian ones in this enviroment.

Whatever intern it was, good on them.

Lazlo74 from A tropical hell-hole Since: May, 2018
#327178: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:11:28 AM

This CNN article highlights how Trump and Biden's polls remain remarkably stable after nearly a year, even with all the events of the past year unfolding.

Mike Murphy, a veteran GOP strategist who now opposes Trump, says that 10 years ago he would have predicted that a public health and economic catastrophe of the coronavirus' magnitude would have produced a "1980 level wipeout" for Trump and his party. In that year, dissatisfaction with President Jimmy Carter's performance propelled not only a landslide win for Republican nominee Ronald Reagan, but also a sweep of 12 Democratic-held Senate seats that carried the GOP to control of the chamber. But such a decisive turn no longer appears possible, Murphy says. "Because politics mirrors [attitudes about] culture, we are kind of stuck," he says.

Alan Abramowitz, an Emory University political scientist who has extensively studied the role of economic conditions and other fundamentals in presidential outcomes, agrees. Given the magnitude of the pandemic's impact, "I probably would have expected that it would hurt him more than it has and Trump's [approval and vote share] numbers would have dropped into the mid-30s," he told me. "You would think Biden would be up 15 or 20, not 6 or 7 or 8 points. As long as it stays in that range, there's still that outside chance ... [Trump] can eke out narrow wins in Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin and he could still win the electoral vote. I don't think that's very likely, but it's not inconceivable."

I feel like this is a reflection on how US politics become increasingly hardline and identity-driven - or at worst radicalized - in the past several decades, although it's more visible on the conservative side of the country. Trump even once said that he could shoot someone in public and people will still vote for him. Maybe he's right. Conversely, the CNN is also spinning so many laughably partisan and/or fearmongering stories that they might as well be the liberal Fox News.

Because identity politics has become so clearly overlapping with partisan politics, it makes those divisions all the more heated and uncompromising. It's much easier to compromise on what should the marginal tax rate be, or what's a reasonable date for net-zero carbon emissions, but people generally don't want to compromise on issues related to how much work you should do to ... make sure that racial minorities or women are treated equally.

-Brian Schaffner, Tufts University political scientist

The reality is, America - and probably most of the western world - will be up against a long, petty and arduous culture war.

Edited by Lazlo74 on Sep 15th 2020 at 4:15:23 AM

Scaled seeker
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#327179: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:20:25 AM

[up][up] And again, I think you're ascribing too much intelligence to someone who willingly works for Trump's reelection campaign.

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#327180: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:26:02 AM

CNN is also spinning so many laughably partisan and/or fearmongering stories that they might as well be the liberal Fox News.

This er, really is not the case.

Lazlo74 from A tropical hell-hole Since: May, 2018
#327181: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:30:06 AM

Okay, I take it back. Some people I've met on the 'net supported Biden, but they believe that the CNN isn't a particularly reliable news source because of a fairly obvious liberal bias. The right, of course, immediately paints them as the MSM boogeyman.

Scaled seeker
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#327182: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:35:47 AM

"CNN is liberal FOX News"

Yeah, no. CNN both sides issues and brings in far-right speakers.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#327183: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:39:18 AM

Yeah CNN doesn't have a liberal bias, it has a horse-race bias and engages in a ton of bothsidism while also pushing for whatever will generate the most headlines.

CNN is a huge part of why Trump won the Republican primary in 2016, because they gave him a ton of free air time that nobody else got.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Lazlo74 from A tropical hell-hole Since: May, 2018
#327184: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:48:52 AM

Didn't even realize that, considering how buddy-buddy they have been to Biden throughout this year. The "any news outlet that doesn't kiss the GOP's ass is fake news lamestream media" accusation from the right is a given, but I honestly didn't believe that the CNN's reputation is also poor among the left-wing.

Scaled seeker
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#327185: Sep 15th 2020 at 4:58:03 AM

CNN is widely viewed as enabling Trump's victory in 2016 by playing up the scandals attaching to Hillary Clinton instead of discussing the actual merits of the candidates' platforms. CNN wanted a horse race, so it manufactured one.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#327186: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:05:24 AM

CNN is considered to be the Enlightened Centrist option of the various popular news channels, although it's got a lot of the above artificial forced competition mixed into the usual Golden Mean Fallacy. It's only "pro-Biden" insofar as supporting Trump is potentially damaging to its bottom line, and reporting honestly on Trump's atrocities relative to Biden's gaffes will end up making the latter look better by comparison.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 15th 2020 at 8:06:58 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#327187: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:05:46 AM

[up][up] And pretty much shot themselves in the foot because they enabled a guy to win who's downright hostile to any media that aren't 100 % behind him.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 15th 2020 at 2:05:57 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#327188: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:07:14 AM

And have learned precisely nothing since then.

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327189: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:10:38 AM

The problem is that CNN tries to be unbiased, and that means giving air to stories that are bad for Democrats, and to commentators who bring Republican talking points. This may be good from a journalistic standpoint, but it bites you in the ass when one side is perfectly willing and able to abuse it to their own ends.

Again, there is nothing wrong with showing both sides of an issue in principle. The real problem is that Republicans exploit this to their own end by arguing in bad faith.

And yeah, they give air to stories unflattering to Democrats, but that is their job. They would be terrible journalists if they didn't do that.

Saying that CNN is liberal Fox News is both wrongheaded and plays right into the fake news narrative.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#327190: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:21:04 AM

The problem with the CNN-type bothsidism is that it gives the same amount of coverage/gravitas to Trump/Republican atrocities as to Biden/Democratic gaffes (stealing the phrase from AlleyOop). IIRC, Biden's "you ain't black" gaffe, ill-advised though it was, got about as much coverage on a lot of mainstream outlets as Trump/his admin. basically leaving "blue states" out to dry during the early days of the pandemic, their lies about vote-by-mail, the outrage of the DHS in Portland, etc. The two take up equivalent amounts of space, which is incredibly lopsided.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#327191: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:28:37 AM

CNN is the "Is the sky blue? Experts weigh in! Please vote in our online poll!" network.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#327192: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:35:51 AM

US halts imports from China's Xinjiang region over Uighur forced labor.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327193: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:39:53 AM

Edit: a disclaimer that I get my impressions of CNN from the international version. From what I understand, they are not quite the same as the US version.

It really is being stuck between a rock and a hard place, journalistically speaking. What were they supposed to do with Biden's gaffe, ignore it? They can't really do that in good conscience either.

I think the real problem is not so much that they cover both sides, but the way they cover them, and the guests they interview.

Which is another problem. They can't just not invite Republicans to have a say on whatever news story they are having. That is not good journalism. So what are they supposed to do, vet their experts for their opinion beforehand? That would be censorship, and that's not exactly conducive to a free press either.

I think we should put blame where it belongs: with Republicans who argue in bad faith and take advantage of good journalistic practices to push their agenda, not with news agencies who at least try to maintain a standard of journalistic integrity.

up][up] I think that is a much more relevant complaint: CNN does tend towards breathless sensationalism.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 15th 2020 at 2:43:02 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#327194: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:42:14 AM

[up] What's so important about Biden's gaffes that they're equivalent to [insert any random thing Trump has done here]? Because that's the issue people are having if I'm understanding correctly. Like you say, it's not the coverage, it's how they go about it.

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#327195: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:42:46 AM

[up][up]I would argue that providing a platform to those who argue in bad faith is in violation of journalistic integrity.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Sep 15th 2020 at 8:42:57 AM

My musician page
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#327196: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:44:01 AM

Wisconsin Supreme Court rules Green Party presidential ticket is ineligible for state ballot – Under state law, more than 1 million absentee ballots that have already been requested are supposed to be mailed by Thursday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/wisconsin-court-green-party/2020/09/14/cc0fd7fc-f685-11ea-be57-d00bb9bc632d_story.html

And nothing of value was lost?

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#327197: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:44:20 AM

What were they supposed to do with Biden's gaffe, ignore it? They can't really do that in good conscience either.

I think the real problem is not so much that they cover both sides, but the way they cover them, and the guests they interview.

I agree with you here,

not with news agencies who at least try to maintain a standard of journalistic integrity.

but not here.

My beef with the specific coverage of Biden's gaffe was not that they covered it in the first place, but that it was a headline story on the main page for multiple outlets, that they (each!) wrote multiple articles over the course of a couple days analyzing it from a bunch of different angles. I've seen much worse Trump news stories that were treated like a footnote and barely followed up on. It's the disparity in coverage and treatment that grates.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327198: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:47:05 AM

I think a better response to arguments in bad faith is to provide stronger pushback against them, and to expose it for what it is, rather than treating it as valid arguments. I think that is partly on Democratic commentators to have good counter-arguments and be able to spot bad arguments.

As for Biden's gaffes, I agree they should not be weighed equally to Trump scandals, but you still need to cover them somewhat. And the gaffe in question was deserving of scrutiny and pushback.

[up] I think part of the problem there is that Trump has so many scandals that many of them inevitably become footnotes. I'm sure most of you don't even remember half the scandals from last year, let alone Trump's first year in office.

And that's kind of the mad genius of Trump: he creates so many scandals that few even stand out any more. And when someone else, like Biden, has a scandal (and it was, if a minor one) it automatically stands out because Biden does not have three scandals a week.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 15th 2020 at 2:50:20 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#327199: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:50:16 AM

[up][up][up] Oh that's good. I remember reading that some ballots had already been sent out and it would have been a nightmare to try to fix the situation

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#327200: Sep 15th 2020 at 5:52:14 AM

[up][up]My argument against providing stronger pushback instead of just not allowing them on the platform is that it’s the same as Disregard That Statement. You can’t just take an idea out of a listener’s head, but you can stop it from getting there in the first place.

About the most you can say is say “x has this belief, here’s the problems with it” and not provide any of the “pro” arguments, for example, if they’re an anti-vaxxer, just say they are, and call them out. Don’t let them make arguments in favor of it.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Sep 15th 2020 at 8:52:30 AM

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