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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#327051: Sep 13th 2020 at 9:19:46 PM

In this specific scenario it would require the military to obey a blatantly illegal order in support of a naked attempt to pull off a coup. The military know it's illegeal for them to operate in the US outside of very specific circumstances and Trump doesn't have the skills to convince them he's not trying to steal the election.

Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#327052: Sep 13th 2020 at 9:33:14 PM

In this specific scenario it would require the military to obey a blatantly illegal order in support of a naked attempt to pull off a coup.

And on behalf of someone who has repeatedly disrespected them and has shown himself to be entirely self-interested and will throw allies under the bus for perceived slights. Even the most corrupt military brass should look at the idea of helping Trump with a coup and think "there's nothing guaranteed in it for me even if we win".

Now, what I'm half-jokingly, half-seriously worried about is ballot drop boxes in blue cities "mysteriously" being vandalized in a way that compromises the ballots inside.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#327053: Sep 13th 2020 at 11:40:38 PM

Could he not seize power with a handful of high ranking officers in command of useful units, such as intelligence, special forces, maybe a few battalions near DC?

So the exact units who already told him to shove it when he tried to give them illegal orders during the height of the protests? Yes there are only a few specific people he’d need, I’ve actually looked them up and they’re all career military without any real connection to Trump.

Well, the one who would be in charge of refusing the order would probably be the current Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper (who's against using the Insurrection Act).

Even with a complicit Sec Defence the order still have to go through the relevant commanders for US military operations in the United States, so the head of US Northern Command [1].

If he gives a legal order, or he can pressure someone else into declaring it legal, the military would basically be stuck between following orders or risk a court martial offence.

Sure and this is why numerous retired generals have been writing articles about how any such orders would be illegal, it’s also why the military isn’t lead by cowards.

They already got into a shouting match with Trump when he tried to order them to do something illegal during the height of the protests, we’ve already been down this road and the military held firm.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#327054: Sep 14th 2020 at 5:25:25 AM

Any remaining sway that Trump MIGHT have had with the various higher ups in the Military got completely canned with his tear-gassing of protesters for his photo op using military personnel as props during that event.

So no the units around DC would definatly NOT support Trump in any sort of Martial Law and/or Coup.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#327055: Sep 14th 2020 at 5:40:37 AM

This whole “just asking questions” thing about martial law or a coup is getting old. It feels like bad faith at this point, given how many times it’s been explained.

They should have sent a poet.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#327056: Sep 14th 2020 at 6:35:10 AM

I just tune out whenever it crops up here, since it feels like going around in circles.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327057: Sep 14th 2020 at 6:39:20 AM

I promise it is not in bad faith, I was just curious how martial law works exactly.

And I'm pretty sure this is the first time we've talked about martial law in this thread, so no, it's not been explained before.

And I never brought up a coup either, so stop trying to pin that on me.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 14th 2020 at 3:40:45 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327058: Sep 14th 2020 at 7:39:22 AM

Oracle, one of Donald Trump’s favorite companies, wins TikTok deal: Ellison has raised money for Trump. Trump has called Ellison a "tremendous guy."

t's a victory for Larry Ellison, the chairman of Oracle and one of the few technology tycoons who has been openly supportive of Donald Trump. Ellison held a fundraiser for Trump in February.

The big challenge facing Byte Dance is the need to satisfy the potentially conflicting demands of the US and Chinese governments. The US government has threatened to shut down Tik Tok over concerns that the Chinese government would compromise Americans' privacy or exercise undue influence over the content Americans see. Transferring Tik Tok's US operations to an American company could address those concerns.

But the Chinese government isn't happy about the possibility of the US government essentially seizing a major Chinese technology asset for the benefit of a US competitor. Late last month, Beijing announced new export control rules restricting the sale of artificial intelligence technology—rules that apparently apply to the algorithm Tik Tok uses to recommend videos to its users. This means that Byte Dance will need the approval of the Chinese authorities—as well as the Trump administration—before any deal can go through.

Rumors have suggested that Chinese officials might prefer to see Tik Tok shut down than to create a precedent for foreign governments to seize control of Chinese technology platforms. Byte Dance's decision to make the Oracle deal something less than an outright sale might be an effort to respect the sensitivities of the Chinese government.

One promoted comment:

Well, let's postulate who the other suitors were:

Google: Merges Tik-Tok into Wave and it's off to the races!

Microsoft: Tik-Tok Workgroups for Zune .Net

AT&T: We can lose money on this! Yes, let's do it!

Facebook: No further comment necessary

Verizon: Let's just bundle it with Yahoo and the let it die slowly.

Comcast: No. Just no.

Apple: Tik-Tok will now only work on iPhones made after December 2019.

Amazon: Fills the screen with ads for clocks.

Spirit Halloween Superstore: Hell, why not? There's probably some vacant strip mall space they can operate out of until November.

I can see where China is coming from here. This is definitely an iffy practice, buying up competitors under the guise of security concerns.

But of course, only American companies are allowed to compromise their citizens' privacy or influence the content they see.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#327059: Sep 14th 2020 at 7:40:12 AM

Trump got his way,bleh

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#327060: Sep 14th 2020 at 7:45:03 AM

>Silas: They already told him no? Okay, interesting. That changes things, and though it would still be wise to not be overly dismissive of Trump's ability to break norms I'll defer to you on this.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#327061: Sep 14th 2020 at 7:46:21 AM

[up][up] He has been for four years. Until he leaves office, Trump automatically wins any fight he picks and any fight picked against him because there are no rules for what he can and cannot do that carry actual consequences. Even when the Supreme Court steps in and says he can't do a thing, he does it anyway because there are no rules that say he has to listen to the Supreme Court that carry actual consequences.

Trump discovered the Presidential Loophole that most Americans didn't realize existed: the much-vaunted "checks and balances" are gentlemanly courtesies and our system has no responses built in for politicians who choose to just ignore them. American democracy runs entirely on the honor system. Mitch McConnell is also familiar with this loophole.

That's why it's so important to keep people like Trump out of Washington via the power of the vote.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 14th 2020 at 7:47:40 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#327062: Sep 14th 2020 at 8:17:40 AM

[up] Speaking of, Trump just suggested he could negotiate a third term (that's if he wins a second). Who's going to stop him? Yeah yeah Democratic majority in Congress, but if he somehow gets Congressional majority again in 2020 there'll be no stopping him because it's been proven he doesn't care about Amendments or the Supreme Court, and the GOP is either lacking balls to stand up to him ("Yeah sure, whatever you say boss!... please don't Tweet about me...") or are on the Trump Train ("The ridiculous hoax of an impeachment prevented Trump from getting anything done in the first term, he's perfectly entitled to a do-over!").

Edited by speedyboris on Sep 14th 2020 at 8:39:32 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#327063: Sep 14th 2020 at 8:42:31 AM

He'd need a 2/3 supermajority in both houses to get that one. At which point there are much bigger concerns than Trump himself.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327064: Sep 14th 2020 at 8:42:32 AM

Surely negotiating a third term would involve a bit more than approval from Congress?

[up] That, in other words. And I imagine the Supreme Court would also have something to say about it.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 14th 2020 at 5:43:25 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#327065: Sep 14th 2020 at 8:43:30 AM

Yeah, 2/3 of the states.

Or, to shred the constitution.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 14th 2020 at 11:44:02 AM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#327066: Sep 14th 2020 at 8:45:23 AM

Which he has shown to be perfectly willing to.

But that bridge can wait for the next 4 years.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#327067: Sep 14th 2020 at 8:52:13 AM

Seriously, there is absolutely no point in worrying about Donald Trump trying to get a third term, because that means having to survive Trump getting a second term with a Congressional majority to start with. Which is a much more immediate problem.

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#327068: Sep 14th 2020 at 8:59:31 AM

Trump has worked his way around the constitution by breaking norms and traditions and testing the public’s tolerance for breaching them — like in Ancient Rome, it turns out subverting the mos maiorum is perfectly acceptable because norms are meant to be broken. The thing is, two terms is explicitly in the Constitution and instituted by a GOP Senate in the 50s. It’s much harder to argue against something that’s there stated plainly than it is to do something that everyone assumed would never been done, if that makes sense.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Sep 14th 2020 at 12:00:42 PM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#327069: Sep 14th 2020 at 9:13:23 AM

Seriously, there is absolutely no point in worrying about Donald Trump trying to get a third term, because that means having to survive Trump getting a second term with a Congressional majority to start with. Which is a much more immediate problem.

Agreed, let's focus on the actual threat instead of one that's exceedingly theoretical. Whether he can get a third term doesn't matter that much, a second term would be devastating enough for everyone.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#327070: Sep 14th 2020 at 9:20:00 AM

[up]. Seconded

here’s a clip of Trump finding out about the over 200 auto plants that apparently have been built during his administration from the teleprompter in the middle of a rally, that I found pretty funny.

200? I thought it was a little less than that. Wait, I want to see that again. 200! (Points at teleprompter) It says 200. Can you believe it?

Edited by megaeliz on Sep 14th 2020 at 4:45:13 AM

TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#327071: Sep 14th 2020 at 9:20:55 AM

If Donald Trump cheats his way to a second term and gets away with it, the American Experiment will be definitely over.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327072: Sep 14th 2020 at 9:30:22 AM

[up][up] That is indeed amusing, especially considering his habitual tendency to exaggerate. Clearly he did not expect that at all.

A little worrying though that the president apparently doesn't even know what is in his own speeches. Don't his staff at least tell him what's in them?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#327073: Sep 14th 2020 at 9:40:45 AM

That assumes that he would listen or, possibly less likely, remember.

It's been fun.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#327074: Sep 14th 2020 at 9:52:23 AM

I think he would have remembered that part. That's the sort of brag he loves making, after all.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#327075: Sep 14th 2020 at 9:58:17 AM

@ Titan

Coming from a country that saw that particular BS in the 90's, No, please no. Not even the USA deserves to go through that particular hell.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

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