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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#326851: Sep 11th 2020 at 11:37:59 AM

Do we have a trope for powerful people who are constantly afraid that everyone is out to get them?

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#326852: Sep 11th 2020 at 11:41:34 AM

National pledges of allegiance are never made in countries that feel secure about the allegiance of their citizens. I am a Dutch citizen, and I have never once had to pledge my allegiance to my country. It is taken as a given that I am. My country shows it has faith in me by not demanding a pledge like that.

I'm fairly certain most militaries require an oath of allegiances, using this logic every armed force thinks that their nation's civilians are traitors waiting to strike.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#326853: Sep 11th 2020 at 11:56:15 AM

[up][up] Paranoia? Shakespearean King Syndrome?

[up] But militaries are special circumstances. What we are talking about is everyone having to reaffirm their allegiance on a daily basis.

Edited by Redmess on Sep 11th 2020 at 8:57:58 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#326854: Sep 11th 2020 at 11:57:18 AM

I mean, asking for an oath or pledge of some sort upon taking a position with responsibility for a country's security makes sense. You should show that you understand the responsibility being asked of you.

Demanding oaths to a country for merely existing in it is weird.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#326855: Sep 11th 2020 at 12:00:11 PM

But militaries are special circumstances. What we are talking about is everyone having to reaffirm their allegiance on a daily basis.

My point is that "demanding allegiance is evidence of concern" doesn't really work. Militaries aren't doing it because they're afraid of disloyalty, neither is the US. It's about expecting a higher level of loyalty beyond passive acceptance.

I'm not making a point about its legitimacy or lack thereof, I'm mostly indifferent, but I just don't think your argument works.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#326856: Sep 11th 2020 at 12:00:54 PM

[up][up][up] Lonely at the Top

Edited by FluffyMcChicken on Sep 11th 2020 at 12:01:17 PM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#326857: Sep 11th 2020 at 1:10:14 PM

Re: 9/11, I was six when it happened, so at the time the full implications of it really didn't sink in with me. And now that I'm older, I can't help but be held back by the idea the people who are most likely to still be obsessed with it, are probably some of the people to most likely condemn the people actually affected.

The types who would go on about "Real America" but definitely wouldn't consider New York and New Yorkers a part of it.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#326858: Sep 11th 2020 at 1:17:44 PM

I'm struggling to recall where I was precisely,but,I know and I swear by the Moon that I saw the first plane hit the towers

I have two memories,one was at home as I about to leave for school and it was on TV there,the other is watching on a TV at school.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#326859: Sep 11th 2020 at 1:19:52 PM

I was 18, babysitting my then-one-and-a-half year-old niece, when my sister-in-law called telling me about what was happening and worried something could happen where we were (Southern California). Odd though this may sound, the thing I distinctly remember was how quickly news channels had title cards for their coverage...

Edited by sgamer82 on Sep 11th 2020 at 1:20:01 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#326860: Sep 11th 2020 at 1:20:27 PM

I was at my grandmother's house and it was on TV.

Beyond that, I don't remember anything about the time period. Or much in any real detail for years.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#326861: Sep 11th 2020 at 1:23:32 PM

I remember my mom calling everyone into her room because she was watching it. I forget if I saw the second plane hit the tower or not. I think the first tower fell before we had to go for school. I was in High School at the time. I recall my mom kept saying that this was going to lead to World War III. She thought there were going to be a bunch more attacks and I remember being glad we didn't live in a big city.

Edited by WillKeaton on Sep 11th 2020 at 2:33:17 AM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#326862: Sep 11th 2020 at 1:24:36 PM

10th grade in math class for me - and yeah, it was a very muted school day.

And one thing to note with Krugman's "revisionism" - Bush did, for all his faults, do his damnedest to curb Islamophobia in the wake of 9/11, to the point of including it explicitly in his State of the Union speech and making a clear demarcation between Muslims and the terrorists. Compare that to how Republicans responded with Obama's presidency ("Why won't he explicitly condemn Islamic terrorism?!") and Krugman's viewpoint becomes a shitload more understandable.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#326863: Sep 11th 2020 at 1:52:23 PM

I was a high school freshman at the time and was in class. I heard bits and pieces of what was going on, but nothing was concrete so I paid no mind. I also noticed that the principal was calling students down throughout the day. Again, didn't think much on it. Then my name was called. I went down to the office and saw my mom and sister were there and they were taking me home. They told me what happened and I didn't believe it until I saw the news. I was in complete shock.

The fact that I live right outside of Manhattan, still in the NYC area, scared me the most cause it literally hit that close to home for me.

Edited by Steven on Sep 11th 2020 at 4:53:07 AM

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#326864: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:06:26 PM

I was at work. It was early in the day; someone said something about a plane hitting the WTC. We all rushed to find any news we could, but the Internet was packed; we could barely get to any news sites. Once the second plane hit nobody was interested in working and we all went into the owner's office to watch his TV. My wife was freaking out; she worked closer in to DC and they were in a state of panic.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#326865: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:28:04 PM

Ah, Krugman's comments made their way here...

I'll just say, in the days after the attacks our local gas station put up a "Muslims not welcome" sign. We lived in the North, in the 2000s, not '50s era South, but there it was all the same.

I'll leave it at that, and not pour out all the bitter anger I have at the insinuation that bigotry wasn't a widespread response to the attacks.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#326866: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:31:05 PM

I think George Takei was one of the first big name stars to speak out against the Islamophobia that sprouted after 9/11, himself going through something similar during when the US built Japanese interment camps during WWII.

Codafett Knows-Many-Things Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Knows-Many-Things
#326867: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:32:55 PM

I was like 4.

Just Having Fun
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#326868: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:37:04 PM

I was 13 and I specifically remember being in my Science class and hearing the announcement over the PA of an attack on America. I wouldn't know the full extent until I went to my next class (which was Texas History by the way), where my teacher had it on all class. Also, we were expected to be lead by a teacher between buildings and classes because of the fear of another attack.

I do specifically remember being bored by all the coverage later on in the day, specifically because every channel had it on at the time.

EDIT: Harris County will be keeping seven polling locations open 32 hours starting at 7 am October 29th.

Edited by tclittle on Sep 11th 2020 at 4:39:27 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#326869: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:44:56 PM

What's "funny" is that George W. Bush himself prior to being elected spoke out in defense of arab-americans saying they suffered from racial profiling and prejudice and made a genuine effort to court their votes. Then after 9/11 the platform and republicans themselves becaming increasingly racist and islamophobic and their grasp on the muslim vote as a whole was lost.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Sep 11th 2020 at 6:26:34 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#326870: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:52:56 PM

Don't quote me on this, but from what I understand, Muslims were more often than not Conservatives before 9/11.

Afterwards all but the most rightwing of them switched over to the Democrats because that's the party that won't kill them.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#326871: Sep 11th 2020 at 2:59:55 PM

Funny what happens when you demonize an entire group of people in a democracy.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#326872: Sep 11th 2020 at 3:13:44 PM

Not unsimilar to the situation with a lot of people of Latin descent, even speaking from personal experience I've met quite a few whose beliefs trend towards Catholic traditionalism and social conservatism (especially when it comes to divorce, homosexuality, and abortion), but the immense anti-Latin racism of the Republicans with their preoccupation with so-called "illegal immigrants" in the 00s drives them towards the Democratic Party instead. That's in part one of the reasons for the Democrats being such a chaotic big tent party, with a leftish bent but also some heavily social conservative elements.

Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 11th 2020 at 6:14:55 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#326873: Sep 11th 2020 at 3:14:50 PM

I mean many Muslims are still conservative in the social sense, but yeah, politically they mostly lean Democrat nowadays.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#326874: Sep 11th 2020 at 3:15:35 PM

I believe the same has been said for black people, particularly older ones, many times.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 11th 2020 at 6:16:31 AM

i'm tired, my friend
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#326875: Sep 11th 2020 at 3:15:57 PM

It's also not unlike a lot of my family, who are social conservative in the Chinese way, but vote Democrat because guess which party helped get them into the country while the Cultural Revolution was raging on?


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