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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#326201: Sep 5th 2020 at 5:59:34 AM

Your views should be something you form yourself based on news, lived experience, interaction with others and good healthy discussion and debate.

They should not be something you “get” fully formed from anywhere, you should be creating, altering and growing them yourself.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#326202: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:00:46 AM

As for the banking bailout, what’s the complaint there? That bailouts happened at all? That the bailouts didn’t have strings/result in semi-nationalisation, that the bailouts weren’t paired with criminal prosecutions?

Essentially, the bailouts were accompanied by everyone going back to exactly what they were doing before and feeding off the working man. Obama didn't get nearly the credit he deserved for a better economy, though.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#326203: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:05:01 AM

I gave three different reasons to be upset, I’m asking for which specific objection was being made, or if it’s a more out there one of “Obama didn’t have bankers publicly executed in the streets”.

Also didn’t Dodd-Frank change a lot of the financial rules, thus meaning things didn’t go back to how they were before? Plus Dodd-Frank had to get past a Republican filibuster, so it‘s not like Obama could have made it more left-wing if he’d wanted to.

I’ve long been a believer that government bailouts should result in semi-nationalisation, if the country has to buy shares in your company that they should be voting shares. But not everyone on the left seems to agree with the idea that bailouts can be needed at times.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 5th 2020 at 1:07:05 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#326204: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:08:19 AM

I agree with Silasw's point on the previous page that you can't ignore the context that the Democrats during Obama's later years in office particularly were severely hamstrung in ability to get any progressive legislation passed in Congress by Republicans and DINOs (Democrats In Name Only)...

Edited by PointMaid on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:09:08 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#326205: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:12:24 AM

I watch tons of political Youtubers. I don't think there is a single one with whom I agree on every issue, but it is quite interesting to get different takes from different sides.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#326206: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:16:32 AM

One wants to cultivate a variety of sources to get a broad picture of what's going on in the world. It is a risk and a flaw to be too dependent on any one source.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#326207: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:17:46 AM

[up] I buy into a frame work, not just one person. The online left wing content makers go from Social Democratic to full on anarchist, but I think the Breadtube community is generally well informed and talks about issues others don't.

@ M84, except I think CNN does a poor job covering certain subjects. I think someone like Seder covers topics CNN doesn't.

Perhaps views is the wrong word, but everyone chooses where they get their information that informs their views and I would choose someone like Sam Seder over anyone at CNN.

I do not get my views fully formered from anyone, but I would buy into the general framework of left populism and which information sources I choose to follow reflect that. Ultimately you have choose sources you think are worthwhile and I think I like more off beat sources from the CNN type model.

Something like Reveal is very good in terms of good school investigative journalism that CNN doesn't do. On the Media is pretty good too.

I can watch someone like Thought Slime and enjoy his content, but he is further left than I would, but he doesn't just take on Obama, he takes on the Right as well:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEpLKRkVFwU

I think dismissing someone due to one video is good way to reject anything they have to say out of hand.

Edited by Overlord on Sep 5th 2020 at 6:20:48 AM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#326208: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:21:38 AM

Choosing a source of factual information because it fits your preconceived biases is a good way to not actually get factual information.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#326209: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:21:38 AM

[up] [up]Well said.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 5th 2020 at 3:22:07 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#326210: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:30:05 AM

[up][up] Okay, but then what is the track record of something like CNN compared to something I can provide:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mediabiasfactcheck.com/cnn/%3famp

CNN record is rather mixed.

And it still doesn't change the fact that CNN doesn't cover some stuff that other sources would.

No source is perfect, but I think sources that cover stuff CNN doesn't interest me more.

Reveal did a 8 part series on evictions, does something like CNN put resources into that?

I also think the Noam Chomsky media bias analysis is why I have trouble with some of the things CNN does.

Edited by Overlord on Sep 5th 2020 at 6:32:40 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#326211: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:30:43 AM

[up][up][up]Pretty much. I actually make a point of limiting my viewership of media where I find myself wanting to believe what they're saying.

[up]Who is saying you should get your news from CNN mostly in the first place? Heck, I don't. I usually get it from other sources like the Washington Post or The Guardian.

Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:34:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#326212: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:34:33 AM

Wapo is better, but it is owned by Bezos, which means it will not go after Amazon the way Reveal or On the Media did.

I do like the Guardian generally.

You can dismiss my sources without having tried them?

Edited by Overlord on Sep 5th 2020 at 6:35:42 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#326213: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:35:35 AM

[up]Let's not encourage distrust of mainstream media, okay? "Wapo is less reliable because it's owned by Bezos" is populist bullshit.

And your sources include people who make hot takes like "Obama is a monster". So, yes, I'm not inclined to trust them.

That's how this whole discussion got started. Someone brought up a Youtuber who called Obama a monster.

And who says I haven't tried them? I used to watch TYT for crying out loud. That's actually a big part of why I'm against political Youtubers these days.

As for Noam Chomsky...ugh. He's living proof on how someone who is well educated and knows his shit can still be a complete fucking idiot.

Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:40:50 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#326214: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:40:14 AM

[up] So does Wapo investigate Amazon? Its a fair question.

I think just saying populism is bad is not looking at the big picture. BLM is a populist movement, I think they are generally correct. Something being populist doesn't instantly make it bad.

I fell off Young Turks, mainly because I think Cenk is an intellectual light weight.

Also Thought Slime maybe hyperbolic, but I think saying one hyperbolic video doesn't his channel doesn't have a fair amount of good content, IMO. I wouldn't be so hyperbolic, but I think I lot of the stuff he talks about is interesting, IMO, even if he is way to the left of me.

Edited by Overlord on Sep 5th 2020 at 6:46:31 AM

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#326215: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:41:23 AM

[up][up]Recognizing that even highly regarded media outlets have their biases and may not be 100% reliable is not populism.

That's why you should have a varied media diet.

Either way my preferred outlets include the BBC, NPR, Vox, and the Guardian. In terms of just pure reliable information BBC and NPR are the best, but Vox and the Guardian do have some pretty good analysis as well.

Edited by Mio on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:41:34 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#326216: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:42:15 AM

[up][up]No, it's not a fair question at all. It's insinuating that Wapo is compromised solely because of Bezos' involvement.

Remember when Sanders went after Wapo based on this without citing any actual evidence? To Sanders' credit, he did walk back on that.

Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:43:06 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#326217: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:42:48 AM

A populist news source is one that axiomatically is putting what's popular with its audience ahead of factual reporting.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#326218: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:44:17 AM

Anyway, it's completely absurd to trust Breadtube over mainstream media. It's the news equivalent of adding Splenda to a drink at best.

Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:45:18 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#326219: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:45:56 AM

How exactly are we defining populism anyway?

Is it just anytime something tries to appeal to a broad audience or goes against the mainstream, or is it something more specific?

[up]I have to be honest, do you think the mainstream media does not have any biases that may make them less trustworthy in certain subjects or in general?

Edited by Mio on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:47:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#326220: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:47:25 AM

[up]It's tough to define, but it generally has tones of anti-elitism.

Also, don't insinuate that I have full trust in the MSM. It's just that I have more trust in them than I do political Youtubers.

Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:49:14 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#326221: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:50:27 AM

One wants to cultivate a variety of sources to get a broad picture of what's going on in the world. It is a risk and a flaw to be too dependent on any one source.

Who is saying you should get your news from CNN mostly in the first place? Heck, I don't. I usually get it from other sources like the Washington Post or The Guardian.

To go along with this, when I post my What the Fuck Just Happened Today? infodumps, I usually only post one link (typically judged on the basis of which one isn't a paywall so anyone can go look) but make a point to leave in the other sources reporting on it. Part of it's laziness, in that it's not really worth the trouble of pruning them out, but it still also provides info on who's reporting what so people can judge/ go to a preferable source than what I picked.

On the video, I didn't go to the video. Partly because I go to YouTube to get away from real life stuff, but also because anything with hyperbolic titles (deliberate or otherwise) like "Obama was a monster" is a quick and obvious sign that I'm not going to hear something objective. Hell, in a bit of Horseshoe Effect, that's precisely the title of a video I'd expect from an alt-right take on Obama. At the same time, I'd ignore a video that replaced Obama in the title with Trump. Partly because "well duh", but primarily for the same reason I'd ignore the Obama video, you can guess going in where the video stands, and it's not necessarily on the side of objective truth.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#326222: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:50:28 AM

[up][up][up] What are we counting as Breadtube than, is Reveal or On the Media Breadtube? Is the Majority Report with Sam Seder Breadtube?

Is Chomsky's analysis on the media incorrect?

Reveal and On the Media did exposes on Amazon, sure that is worthwhile investigative journalism.

[up] Its hyperbolic and Thought Slime is a something of an Anarchist bomb thrower. I still like some of his content and he does take on the alt right not just liberals, but he is just infotainment.

Edited by Overlord on Sep 5th 2020 at 6:54:19 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#326223: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:51:32 AM

"Breadtube" is also not one united community - it's more just a label applied to left-leaning YouTube commentators with often widely differing stances on things, especially the US election.

Some champion voter apathy because there's no candidate they deem perfect, others actually see the bigger picture.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 5th 2020 at 3:53:00 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
FinestArts Vampire Mouse of Mars from The North Lands Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Vampire Mouse of Mars
#326224: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:52:42 AM

@Mio

From the only dictionary that matters,

populist

A term for a person or movement that embodies populism i.e. anti-intellectualism masquerading as disdain for "the elites" i.e. anybody who uses facts in an argument. This is generally found in the far-right (or alt-right, as they like to call themselves now), but far-left populists are not uncommon, just less prone to xenophobic bullshit

populism

1. A principle that the citizenry of a nation decides its government's endeavors.

2. An often noisy and/or militant mob mentality fostering anti-intellectualism, which operates from primitive emotional instincts rather than from civil, substantive disagreement.

Edited by FinestArts on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:53:09 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#326225: Sep 5th 2020 at 6:53:41 AM

I also just think it's kind of a silly thing to call yourself. I get that it's based on The Conquest of Bread, but still.

[up][up]There are a few of them I think are fairly reasonable even if I don't watch them regularly: Lindsey Ellis and Contrapoints for example. Not as familiar with Three Arrows, but they seem pretty reasonable too.

Edited by M84 on Sep 5th 2020 at 9:56:49 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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