TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#325601: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:00:39 AM

I'm sort of torn by the "Trump's going to win" arguments. On the one hand, it means two more months of doom-saying. On the other hand, the Democrats really need a dominant performance by Biden to win the Senate, and complacency will lead to that failing.

This feels somewhat like 2008, when it was clear Obama was going to defeat Mc Cain if you looked at the polling, but there was a lot of discussion that assumed the election was close.

The problem with this logic is that doomsaying is not an improvement over complacency, a person who does not vote because Trump is definitely losing is identical to someone who does not vote because he's definitely going to win. Ergo, the assumption that the alternative to doomsaying is complacency is not true.

What matters is enthusiasm, and in that metric, we have a very solid foundation because everyone who is connected to reality knows how terrible Trump is.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#325602: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:01:07 AM

We (GenX'ers) just don't seem to have a cultural identity. We inherited declining economic fortunes from the boomers, settled into our adult lives, had some kids, and just sort of did our thing.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 31st 2020 at 2:01:23 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Xorn15 Nurse Mordred Attending from R&D Platform, Seychelles Waters Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Nurse Mordred Attending
#325603: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:11:23 AM

So do you guys think that Biden should make a trip to Kenosha? I know Trump is going to stir up his base, but should Biden try to counter him somehow?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#325604: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:14:14 AM

Biden has had good success mostly staying quiet and I don't think the people there want him to make a circus of it.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#325605: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:16:19 AM

[up][up]He probably should, but I don't think he will since he is likely very worried about appear to endorse "violence and rioting".

[up]I'm not certain if that is going to remain his strength for long.

Edited by Mio on Aug 31st 2020 at 2:17:25 PM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#325606: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:16:27 AM

Biden should keep calling for police reform while denouncing violence.

And of course Trump shouldn't pull stunts that escalate shit, but he will anyway.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#325607: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:20:17 AM

I'm not certain if that is going to remain his strength for long.

I don't see any reason for that to change. The reason it has been effective is that Trump is his own worst enemy and continues to make things worse for himself, that's not going to change. All Biden needs to do is let the spotlight stay on Trump, and by extension his mistakes, and continue to make the occasional speech.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325608: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:20:21 AM

I agree Biden should go to Kenosha, he can't remain silent on this.

And in general, Biden really needs to stop keeping a low profile if he wants to secure his victory. And he should make an effort to show himself in all 50 states, not just battleground states. We've seen with Clinton what can happen when candidates take states for granted and ignore them.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#325609: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:21:52 AM

As mentioned on the previous page, the Appeals Court ruled against Flynn's request for an immediate dismissal, and did so 8-2, which is pretty damned significant.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#325610: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:24:42 AM

I don't think we have evidence that Biden needs to be outspoken about anything. Push comes to shove, the purpose of being President is not being a showman. Biden has set up a contrast between his memetic cellar and the circus that the drama mongering attention whore that is the current occupant of the White House, and judging by polls this strategy is being a great success so far.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#325611: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:28:10 AM

[up][up][up][up]As we get closer to debate time it will become increasingly necessary for Biden to come out and respond to political issues, if nothing else then to keep Trump from monopolizing the media narrative.

With current events turning more in favor of the right's narrative, Biden can not rely on things shifting back in the lefts and will need to make some kind of decisive response.

Edited by Mio on Aug 31st 2020 at 2:29:28 PM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#325612: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:39:34 AM

Biden is literally giving a speech in Pittsburgh right now.

One "money quote": "The simple truth is Donald Trump failed to protect America. So now he's trying to scare America. ... He keeps telling you if he was President you'd feel safe. Well, he is President whether he knows it or not"

Warning, the video glitches at the beginning.

Also, probably doesn't need to be said, but I would not recommend reading the comments.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#325613: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:40:50 AM

When Trump talks law and order, some Wisconsin voters listen Highlights, and my responses:

"The public just needs something to make them feel comfortable and safe again," said Arnold, who is white, has voted for Democrats in the past and is raising a biracial daughter. "I almost rather see Trump stay and try to resolve it rather than bring somebody in new."
What was that phrase used so often by the right back in 2016 regarding Hillary? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome." Trump is not going to resolve anything, he's only going to escalate it.

"They haven't done anything to stop it," said Rick Demro, a 60-year-old, retired commander with Green Bay police department. "You don't see them back up law enforcement. They're quick to cast judgment before they facts come out. I think all that does is promote the rioting instead of trying to quell it. Part of me says, it's to help them for the campaign purposes."
As if Trump pretending COVID isn't a big deal isn't for campaign purposes either.

"I don't think we're safe in Trump's America," Yurek said, from her home in a neat subdivision on the edge of Green Bay where she lives with her husband and three children. "I think he's caused a lot of the division."
Of course we're not, and of course he has.

"Just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean he has my vote," Leake said. "If I can't specifically see what he's going to do for a change, I'm not going to vote for him. ... There has to be action."
Look, if you can't set aside the "Biden has to earn my vote" stuff even after what we've seen in the last four years, I don't know what to tell you. Now is not the time for sitting out or voting third party because Biden isn't the perfect candidate.

It seems daunting now to switch leaders at a time when she's everyone is "stretched so thin." She's still mulling over her choice, wishing she could hear more from both candidates for a plan for a reset. "I think we're all just kind of worn out. And we just want to get back to somewhat of a normal life."
If you want to get back to a normal life, don't vote for Trump!

megaeliz Since: Mar, 2017
#325614: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:50:00 AM

I like this one

Hypocrisy, thy name is Mike Pence.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#325615: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:50:15 AM

[up][up]I can't help be hear unconscious messages of "law enforcement is axiomatically good, therefore any violence they commit is justified, and any violence towards them is unjustified".

There is also an undercurrent of "can't we just put these entitled whiners down already so I don't have hear them anymore?"

It's these kinds of sheltered, entitled mentalities that are going to usher fascism into this country.

Edited by Mio on Aug 31st 2020 at 2:50:27 PM

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#325616: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:51:31 AM

[up]

Part of it might be a reluctance to interrupt Trump when he's making missteps already - and with how often he makes such missteps, it's damned hard to get a word in edgewise!

[down]

That was actually intended to respond to the criticism of Biden not making himself more visible - got a buttload of posts that got put up in a short span!

Edited by ironballs16 on Aug 31st 2020 at 4:14:02 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325617: Aug 31st 2020 at 11:59:22 AM

And they're right to be reluctant, Trump is not the kind of guy who takes criticism well, and he routinely dumps on those bearing bad news.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#325618: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:02:44 PM

While I don't think that the article speedyboris posted is necessarily deliberately deceptive, I have a lot of skepticism about these kinds of stories about supposedly undecided voters.

I do find it totally believable that there are people who are quite racist, whether they realize it or not, who have become more likely to vote for Trump (again) due to protests against racism/police violence. And to the articles' credit, it does indicate that some of the people quoted are explicitly Trump supporters.

However, everyone quoted seems to be very much looking for a reason to vote for Trump to a degree that I would suspect they are generally Republican voters, even if they have voted for a Democratic Presidential candidate at least once in the past 20 years.

And I think that both the people themselves as well as this kind of article are deliberately ambiguous about that, because they want to give the impression that these are voters that Biden could win over and is failing to.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#325619: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:24:31 PM

The bigger problem is that they work with tiny sample sizes. And that they all fit a common belief that is not however supported by polling. Sounds like they might be cherrypicked.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
BrainSewage from that one place Since: Jan, 2001
#325620: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:40:20 PM

I still have a hard time believing God-Emperor Trump won't win again, for the following reasons:

1. The polls lied in 2016 and they can easily lie again.
2. Trump is capitalizing well on the "law-and-order" theme, which is music to middle America's ears.
3. Paradoxically, the widespread unemployment under Trump will help him win by pushing working people farther into xenophobic anger.
4. Trump has hobbled the Post Office and clearly plans on using it to suppress mail-in votes.
5. The pandemic is no closer to slowing down now than it was back in April, and it's the right wing voters who think basic science is fake and will go to the polls, while Democratic voters will be reluctant to leave their homes to vote in person.
6. The Electoral College, like everything else in America, is hard-wired to favor Republicans.
7. Q-Anon.

Edited by BrainSewage on Aug 31st 2020 at 2:41:37 PM

How dare you disrupt the sanctity of my soliloquy?
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#325621: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:42:03 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#325622: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:47:37 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
Xorn15 Nurse Mordred Attending from R&D Platform, Seychelles Waters Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Nurse Mordred Attending
#325623: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:48:07 PM

[up][up]We can't be overconfident. A lot can happen in two months. Everybody needs to keep that in mind, particularly with the recent violence and the noticeable dip Biden has taken lately.

Edited by Xorn15 on Aug 31st 2020 at 3:48:34 PM

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#325624: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:48:38 PM

I'm going to regret this, but point #5 in particular is BS. In several primaries and elections this year, Democrat turnout has surged even after the local Republicans slashed polling stations in pandemic hotspots.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#325625: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:50:09 PM

Guys. I do think that that usage of the phase 'God-Emperor' can be considered unironic. Like they have not exactly phrased their points in a way that makes it sound to me like they think they are good things.


Total posts: 417,856
Top