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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#32526: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:39:43 PM

Also it was a military action.

Not police.

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#32527: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:40:15 PM

Kneecapping can work

hahahahahahaaha. someone plays too many video games to think that this is an easy thing to do

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
LooseCannon The Groose Is Loose from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jun, 2012
The Groose Is Loose
#32528: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:40:18 PM

But the Seals aren't cops. They're soldiers. They're trained to kill.

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32529: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:40:21 PM

[up][up][up][up]Those are civilians though. These guys could have body armor and automatic weapons and are likely more numerous than the Seal team was. Not arming them with live ammo is just asking for them to get gunned down or captured which means they would have died for nothing.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:40:41 PM by Kostya

DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#32530: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:41:30 PM

I feel the need to point out that kneecapping is much harder than the movies make it look.

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#32531: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:41:52 PM

also you don't need knees to shoot a gun.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#32532: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:42:38 PM

ch00b: Then I've been using them wrong.

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#32533: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:43:02 PM

Can someone validate the source and figure out how they're calculating it?

Also, why doesn't China spend more on their military if they have a way larger army?

LooseCannon The Groose Is Loose from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jun, 2012
The Groose Is Loose
#32534: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:44:22 PM

China's military is only big in manpower. They're lagging behind in technology.

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#32535: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:44:29 PM

Sure, China's army is huge, but ultimately soldiers' kits and other land hardware are much cheaper to buy and maintain than an up to date Air Force and Navy.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:45:02 PM by DirectorCannon

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#32536: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:44:52 PM

@Thorn: He was an international criminal. He should've been arrested like the police do.

Also, in general, I'm against almost all military action.

@ch00 and Director: Doesn't invalidate the other options I gave.

@Loose: Doesn't mean they can't take people alive.

@Kostaya: Do non-lethal weapons have a different effect at all on trained individuals? I'm pretty sure they don't. If a soldier gets hit by a tranq needle, they still go down.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#32537: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:46:27 PM

What makes Bin Laden not a military target and a civilian instead? He was the head of the taliban, who was performing military attacks against our soldiers AND civilians.

DirectorCannon Since: Nov, 2011
#32538: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:46:36 PM

Listen, raiding a terrorist hideout with tasers is like trying to rob a National Guard armory with nothing but your fists.

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#32539: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:47:18 PM

If a soldier gets hit by a tranq needle, they still go down.

hahahahahahaha someone plays too many video games to think that tranqs are a) instantly effective and b) don't need to be carefully calibrated lest they do absolutely nothing or become incredibly lethal.

Tasers require you get in very close range, which you can't do with cover fire, then they only have one shot before you need to reset and recharge. Rubber bullets will do exactly nothing against body armor.

Keep going with suggestions—they'll still be infeasible.

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#32540: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:48:36 PM

Not to mention that we did capture him once, and he escaped.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32541: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:48:46 PM

[up][up][up][up]I'm saying that terrorists are likely going to be better trained than your average protestor and will probably have some form of body armor that tasers, rubber bullets, and tranq guns wouldn't affect. Yes you could take them all down if you're lucky but what if there are just too many of them to taser at once? I'm not sure but I think the compound was also really dark which means aiming for vulnerable areas with tasers and such is going to be significantly harder.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:49:33 PM by Kostya

LooseCannon The Groose Is Loose from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jun, 2012
The Groose Is Loose
#32542: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:48:47 PM

Thinking that you could ask Seals to assault a terrorist hideout with nonlethal weapons and be successful is downright unrealistic.

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#32543: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:50:02 PM

Alright we're getting off topic (and its partly my fault)

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#32544: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:50:12 PM

not if your seal team is made of solid snake clones!!!!!!!!!

edited 14th Oct '12 1:50:26 PM by ch00beh

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#32545: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:50:17 PM

I don't approve of Machiavellian methods to fight terrorism, but in this instance I don't think we were doing anything particularly unethical.

We were killing an enemy combatant who masterminded a direct attack on our soil. Now, the innocent Pakistanis who've died in drone strikes? That is unforgivable.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32546: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:50:39 PM

[up][up][up][up]I hate to say it but this is true. death you may not like the world we live in but it is what it is and sometimes you have to be willing to kill others to preserve your own. I think we should get away from that but right now it's just not feasible.

[up]Yes but nobody is talking about that. We are discussing a man that orchestrated a decade long campaign against the US and was proven to be dangerous.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:51:44 PM by Kostya

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#32547: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:50:48 PM

@Director: To play devil's advocate, this source suggests that China might not be reporting their spendings accurately.

@deathpigeon: I'd presume that non lethal weapons are less effective in downing someone. A high-power bullet to the head is definitely a downer; a traj might just make someone drowsy.

#32548: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:52:06 PM

Also, Chinese enlisted soldiers get paid less than $2,000 dollars a year, and I'm sure they get nothing near the level of benefits our soldiers get.

<><
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#32549: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:53:12 PM

^^

...or it might just kill someone — "non-lethal" weapons can be lethal too.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:53:26 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32550: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:54:50 PM

[up]Especially in a dark and hectic environment where the soldier might not have a chance to accurately assess the vital points of the target he's shooting at and avoid hitting them.


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