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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
LooseCannon The Groose Is Loose from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jun, 2012
The Groose Is Loose
#32502: Oct 14th 2012 at 12:46:50 PM

Obama can't rely on Osama bin Laden being dead alone. Conservatives like to undermine that by saying it was the Navy Seals who killed him, Obama didn't do anything but say yes.

Because, of course, if you didn't pull the trigger yourself, you shouldn't take credit for it.

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32503: Oct 14th 2012 at 12:49:36 PM

Well then I guess Bush isn't responsible for toppling Hussein's regime. This also means Osama Bin Laden isn't responsible for 9/11 therefore he was killed for no reason.

edit: Obama also can't be held accountable for the lackluster recovery since he just gives the commands. What happens after is out of his hands. And Hitler obviously isn't responsible for the holocaust since he just ordered the Jews to be killed. He didn't pull the trigger or release the gas at all.

edited 14th Oct '12 12:52:44 PM by Kostya

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#32504: Oct 14th 2012 at 12:51:13 PM

No but imagine this.

Obama had to take a risk.

Could you imagine if he ordered the operation, and then the navy seals were killed, or worse, captured?

It would have destroyed Obama's chance for reelection.

He's the commander in chief, that means he would have gotten 100% of the blame.

edited 14th Oct '12 12:52:03 PM by Thorn14

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32505: Oct 14th 2012 at 12:52:21 PM

[up]Yes, that's why I credit him with it. The Navy Seals did good work and I tip my hat to them but when the time came Obama made the right decision.

HilarityEnsues Since: Sep, 2009
#32506: Oct 14th 2012 at 12:55:02 PM

If you got a terrorist, you didn't kill that. Somebody else made that happen.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#32507: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:03:54 PM

Well its true.

Logistics anyone?

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#32508: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:23:05 PM

I, for one, blame him for the killing of Osama Bin Laden. He should've been captured and brought before the ICC.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32509: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:24:10 PM

Well that's blaming him for something that's out of his hands. Whether Osama lived or died is something he had no control over beyond telling them to take him alive if possible, which he did do.

edit: Before someone says something no I am not being hypocritical. The operation to go after him would not have been attempted if he hadn't given the okay. He could have easily said no but weighed the risk and said yes. He's not solely responsible but he played a big part in whether or not this operation worked. By contrast once it started he has no control over what his troops do. He can tell them general orders such as try to take him alive but he's not there with them saying "Go here!" "Hold your fire!" etc. This is why I feel it's foolish to blame him for the death of Osama when it literally was out of his hands.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:26:19 PM by Kostya

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#32510: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:24:32 PM

I'm glad they didn't capture him. It would have been a fucking zoo.

LooseCannon The Groose Is Loose from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jun, 2012
The Groose Is Loose
#32511: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:24:35 PM

[up][up][up] That was a high-stress, high-risk mission. As good as it would have been to have him captured, sometimes you have to settle for the second best thing.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:25:13 PM by LooseCannon

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#32512: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:26:59 PM

No he was to be killed on sight. It wasn't a capture mission.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32513: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:27:16 PM

[up][up][up]I know.

Seriously what happens if he escapes? There's just too many variables to take into account. While it would have been nice if he was captured I honestly think killing him was the simplest solution.

[up]Really? Well in that case it was his fault.

Funny, I thought he told them to apprehend him if possible.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:27:57 PM by Kostya

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#32514: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:27:29 PM

Are you sure? I could have sworn there was something about how he was armed or something.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#32515: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:27:42 PM

@Kostaya and Cannon: Killing him shouldn't have even been on the table.

@Thorn: I, for one, am not. Everyone should get a fair trial, and death shouldn't be on the table for punishments.

It should have been a capture mission.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:29:17 PM by deathpigeon

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32516: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:30:34 PM

It's nice to say that you apprehend him and gave him a fair trial and I think it should be attempted whenever possible but there are far too many things that could have gone wrong if they weren't authorized to use deadly force.

What if the Seals were captured for example? Then not only do we not have him we've lost several good soldiers.

What if we do capture him and he escapes? That would look real good wouldn't it? We finally get a madman and end a 10 year manhunt only for him to vanish, possible for good this time.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:32:45 PM by Kostya

LooseCannon The Groose Is Loose from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jun, 2012
The Groose Is Loose
#32517: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:31:25 PM

[up] Exactly. The risks would have been too high to not have killing him an option.

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#32518: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:33:06 PM

@Kostaya: ...How would capturing him make the risk of the Navy SEALs getting captured any higher?

That's always a risk, but do we not arrest criminals, rather than just killing them, regardless? To me, that would be better than him being killed, especially not without a trial. He should've gotten jailed for life.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:33:40 PM by deathpigeon

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#32519: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:34:38 PM

Killing him shouldn't have even been on the table.

because when someone starts shooting at you, you can totally yell "hey hey hey, stop shooting at me, this isn't part of the rules!"

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#32520: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:35:31 PM

...When did I say or imply anything of the sort?

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#32521: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:35:39 PM

death, if someone is engaged in a bank robbery, for instance, and they're armed, then law enforcement has every reason to shoot them if need be.

So, it's not true that every criminal gets a fair trial.

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#32522: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:37:30 PM

...Yeah, but, in general, when police break into the homes of criminals, they capture them, and don't try to kill them.

ch00beh ??? from Who Knows Where Since: Jul, 2010
???
#32523: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:38:03 PM

and then what happens when the criminal pulls out a weapon and shows that they intend to use deadly force?

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Twitter
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#32524: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:39:03 PM

deathpigeon: If the Seals aren't supposed to kill him then that means they're restricted from using deadly force. If 7 guys (I'm assuming that's the Seal team's size) go into a compound that potentially has 20+ armed individuals they are not going to win if they can't use deadly force. Rubber bullets and tasers are all well and good when you fight unarmed and untrained civilians but they are going to be up against terrorists, people that are trained, would have no qualms about killing them, and are likely perfectly able to do this if need be.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:39:22 PM by Kostya

deathpigeon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
#32525: Oct 14th 2012 at 1:39:17 PM

[up][up] Kneecapping can work. As do stun guns and tranq guns and numerous other non-lethal forms of attack available to the police.

[up] I'm pretty sure that tasers and rubber bullets still have the same affect on people who are trained in combat.

edited 14th Oct '12 1:40:42 PM by deathpigeon


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