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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#325101: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:11:57 PM

Willful ignorance has always been humanity's biggest problem. This could be seen in past pandemics too. We're actually repeating a bunch of the same mistakes people made during the Spanish Flu pandemic.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#325102: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:15:43 PM

"I blame Youtube algorithms."

And Facebook algorithms. A Washington Post journalist found that Qanon's rise was seriously boosted by Facebook promoting its Facebook Groups in its algorithm, which let conspiracists find each other and others who hadn't gone down the rabbit hole get pulled in from otherwise innocuous searches.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#325103: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:18:31 PM

Like I said, too much time on social media.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Eschaton Since: Jul, 2010
#325104: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:21:33 PM

Early ARG designer Jim Stewartson argues that the current key contributor - superseding the Patriot Soapbox grifters reported on by NBC - is 8chan owner Jim Watkins, with coordinated help from OANN, and happily amplified by Russian intelligence.

I don't know how solid all the specific evidence is, but the core idea sounds quite plausible. The owner of the biggest platforms for that bullshit wants to make sure it keeps going, and other people want to capitalize on it.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#325105: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:22:36 PM

I'd argue the bigger danger isn't young people (though obviously it's terrible when they fall prey) but older low information white voters. The Qanon theory presents a narrative that does offer a few things:

  • That the Democrats are a rich, sexually perverted, and evil organization.
  • That there's someone who is actually working against them
  • That all the social changes that they fear are part of a evil group.

The thing is all of this is very similar to Anti-Semite theories from before. It's just no longer explictly Jewish.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325106: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:24:30 PM

Let's not pretend Africans don't have their own conspiracy theories, to say nothing of superstitions.

There's that conspiracy theory that gay people are a secret weapon invented by white people, for instance...

[up] Young people are particularly susceptible to online recruitment, which is arguably its most harmful form.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 25th 2020 at 5:25:26 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#325107: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:27:32 PM

Most Qanon true believers tend to be on the older side if I'm not mistaken.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#325108: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:34:53 PM

Yes, Qanon is dangerous not because it's a young angry person's theory, it's an old Boomer and Generation Xer theory.

People with influence.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
SapphireBlue Since: Jan, 2001
#325110: Aug 25th 2020 at 9:20:17 PM

I’m pretty sure a few of my relatives are buying into it, or at least adjacent to it. This aunt and uncle have been posting nasty stuff on Facebook for years, but over the last year or so, it’s gotten way more extreme. Apparently some of the stuff they’re posting lines up with this crap - my parents noticed, I couldn’t stand to look. I’d been considering muting him for a while, but this is what convinced me to do it. My mom feels like she’s losing her brother, and one of their sisters says he’s emailing her crap. It’s awful.

For reference, he’s in his late 70s and my parents are on the tail end of the actual baby boomer generation.

Edited by SapphireBlue on Aug 25th 2020 at 9:24:55 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#325111: Aug 25th 2020 at 11:45:20 PM

Yeah a lot of older people are online now, and they tend to be online via social media, making them very easy targets.

I’d recommend John Oliver’s bit on conspiracy theories for anyone dealing with family who’ve headed down that rabbit hole. It might well be one on Last Week Tonight’s You Tube channel at this point.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
thatindiantroper Since: Feb, 2015
#325112: Aug 26th 2020 at 12:37:38 AM

"they synthesize some sort of hallucinogenic drug from children's suffering"

Wasn't that something on Torchwood?

nova92 Since: Apr, 2020
#325113: Aug 26th 2020 at 1:34:42 AM

There's an interesting article from The Hill about a new bill by Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY14) and Nydia Velazquez (D-NY7) (their opinion piece; the bill) on how to decide Puerto Rico's status that also had a lot of interesting info on the subject.


The article has a bit of history/context on Puerto Rico's history with regard to statehood and how its politics relate to those of the mainland.

Territorial status is a sharply divisive issue in Puerto Rican politics.

The PNP, a collection of moderate Democrats and the territory's Republicans, is by design and vocation a pro-statehood party. The current governor, Wanda Vazquez Garced (R), as well as Resident Commissioner Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon (R) and Senate President Thomas Rivera Schatz (R) are all members of the PNP.

The PNP's nominee to succeed Vazquez, former Resident Commissioner Pedro Pierluisi, is a Democrat.

The territory's other large party, the left-leaning Popular Democratic Party (PPD), is a progressive party that for the most part eschews the idea of statehood, but has pushed for a review of the island's sovereignty status at the United Nations.

A third party, the Puerto Rican Independence Party (PIP), has historically garnered less than 10 percent support in elections.

Vazquez and Ocasio-Cortez's bill aligns most closely with the PPD position, which historically has confused many mainland Democrats.

This explains why before Donald Trump, national Republicans at least nominally supported Puerto Rico statehood, and why, of the 5 Representatives of Puerto Rican descent in the Democratic Party, some are in favor of statehood (Darren Soto and Jose E. Serrano) and some are opposed (Nydia Velazquez), while some have, AFAIK, not expressed a public opinion (Antonio Delgado and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez).


There is also some stuff about the upcoming referendum in November as well as the history of these plebiscites.

Puerto Rico is due to have a yes-no referendum on statehood on the ballot in November's general election.

That referendum, promoted by the ruling New Progressive Party, known as PNP, has not been approved by the federal Department of Justice, which would make it non-binding, like previous exercises of the kind.


Spurred by growing PNP electoral success, control of the statehood party by Democrats under former Gov. Ricardo Rossello and President Trump's attitudes toward the island, statehood gained traction among stateside Democrats before Rossello's resignation in 2019.

A 2017 referendum, held separately from the territory's quadrennial elections, showed 97 percent support for statehood, despite low participation due to the timing, an opposition-led boycott of the vote, and the DOJ's refusal to sanction the exercise.


The 2017 referendum was disavowed by the DOJ under then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions after the territory's government adopted the DOJ's suggested wording for the status question, but refused to change the date of the election.

The referendum followed a campaign promise made by Rossello and Gonzalez-Colon, then viewed as the future leaders of the PNP. Rossello was forced to resign his post in 2019, Gonzalez-Colon is running for reelection as resident commissioner.

Reps. Ocasio-Cortez and Velazquez are critical of past referendums, citing their low participation and non-binding status, and they remain skeptical of the November plebiscite's ability to accurately reflect the view of Puerto Ricans, especially in light of the recent problems in the primary.


Part of the problem with past referendums was the debate over how many options to include on the ballot, and the definition of each. Ocasio-Cortez and Velazquez's bill proposes that a convention of elected delegates would review the various proposals (statehood, independence, etc.). They would then choose a single option and create a transition plan that would then go to a popular referendum. If it passed, Congress could then enact it. Their view is that it would allow for greater self-determination by the Puerto Rican people.

"The legislation that would prompt Puerto Rico's Legislature to create a Status Convention whose delegates would be elected by Puerto Rican voters," wrote the two lawmakers.

"This body would develop a long-term solution for Puerto Rico's status, be that statehood, independence, free association or any option other than the current territorial arrangement," they added.


Under their plan, the territory's legislature would call on a semi-permanent statehood convention to analyze the available sovereignty options, and then present the chosen self-determination option for a referendum.

That plan would void an ongoing conflict over how many options should be present on the ballot on election day, an issue that was at least partially responsible for the opposition boycott in 2017, and gave Sessions an opening to withhold DOJ sanctioning of that vote.


However, pro-statehood proponents, including Gonzalez-Colon and Reps. Soto and Serrano, were critical of the bill, saying that the people's vote (the referendums) should be respected and rejecting a convention as being the "decision of a few" and saying that such a momentous decision shouldn't be taking place "behind closed doors".

merklyn Since: Feb, 2011
#325114: Aug 26th 2020 at 1:47:34 AM

[up][up]

Yup, literally the plot of "Children of Earth".

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325115: Aug 26th 2020 at 5:56:26 AM

I know it is very hard to swallow and feels unfair, but you cannot afford to isolate yourself from family members who are drifting into the alt-right. The reason being that that is exactly how the alt right recruits people: driving wedges between them and friends and family, isolating them, then pulling them deeper down the alt right rabbit hole.

And yes, I know that feels terrible, but then it is a terrible situation in general.

One of the suggestions made by the alt-right playbook blog was to just talk to these people about non-politics stuff, sharing your own life experiences with them so they keep getting that different perspective. It is the loss of perspective that keeps them in their toxic right wing bubble.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 26th 2020 at 2:59:42 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
WoodyAlien3rd from Persimmon Land (Italy) Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: Omelette du fromage~
#325116: Aug 26th 2020 at 6:11:50 AM

The Netflix fiasco about the "Cuties"/"Mignonnes" film couldn't come at a worse possible moment. Now all these people will be reinforced in their belief that there is a cabal of liberal pedophiles that wants to normalize the sexualization of children.

Problem is, a part of these qultists probably don't really believe in the accusations of pedophilia but use them anyway to hurt their political rivals, while others are too stupid and/or brainwashed to comprehend that being against this Q stuff doesn't mean that you are in favor of pedos or child molestation.

How can this situation be solved?

"Effective Altruism" is just another bunch of horsesh*t.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#325117: Aug 26th 2020 at 6:33:08 AM

The Qanuts didn't need their beliefs reinforced. If not for the Netflix thing, they'd latch on to something else, like they've done before, and will do afterwards.

i'm tired, my friend
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325118: Aug 26th 2020 at 6:40:52 AM

[up][up] Cultists are brainwashed into believing anything their leadership tells them. A cult member is not supposed to question the rules, or why they suddenly change, or why they suddenly have to believe a new thing. This is part of the abusive relationship nature of being in a cult.

So no, a lot of them probably don't actually believe it on a rational level, they have just been indoctrinated to accept it without question.

[up] Exactly, the reinforcement of their beliefs comes from within the cult, not the outside.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 26th 2020 at 3:41:58 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325119: Aug 26th 2020 at 6:54:26 AM

Oh, nevermind.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 26th 2020 at 3:55:48 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#325120: Aug 26th 2020 at 9:02:17 AM

Meanwhile,

Unsurvivable storm surge with large and destructive waves will cause catastrophic damage from Sea Rim State Park, Texas, to Intracoastal City, Louisiana, including Calcasieu and Sabine Lakes. This storm surge could penetrate up to 30 miles inland from the immediate coastline in southwestern Louisiana and far southeastern Texas.
A big natural disaster is imminent for Louisiana-Texas.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325121: Aug 26th 2020 at 9:10:19 AM

What is an unsurvivable storm surge, exactly?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#325122: Aug 26th 2020 at 9:12:39 AM

I think it means this place is going to be underwater in the immediate future, so get out ASAP.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#325123: Aug 26th 2020 at 9:16:13 AM

Biden’s campaign has labeled China’s actions against the Uighurs a genocide. Saying

“The unspeakable oppression that Uighurs and other ethnic minorities have suffered at the hands of China’s authoritarian government is genocide and Joe Biden stands against it in the strongest terms. If the Trump administration does indeed choose to call this out for what it is, as Joe Biden already did, the pressing question is what will Donald Trump do to take action. He must also apologize for condoning this horrifying treatment of Uighurs."
[1]

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#325124: Aug 26th 2020 at 9:24:12 AM

That's a huge symbolic step, though I bet that Biden administration would use different terminology because genocide has legal implications...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#325125: Aug 26th 2020 at 9:26:58 AM

A thirty-foot storm surge means that if you don't leave, you will die. Period. No "toughing it out" Survivor: Gulf Coast style.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 26th 2020 at 12:27:27 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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