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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#325026: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:50:25 AM

You can be pro-business and bad for the economy, what businesses want is not the same thing as what the economy or society as a whole needs.

Republican policies are great for big business, which defacto makes them pro-business.

Big Business is not ALL of the businesses though, I think is the argument here.

Edited by Aszur on Aug 25th 2020 at 9:51:03 PM

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#325027: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:51:28 AM

It might not make sense, but in my country, teachers and members of the military are constitutionally supposed to be politically neutral, so they are forbidden from joining political parties, which was why I asked that question. So apparently, this is something unique to my country.

Eh, I don't know if that's unique to where you're from - I can see the logic behind that rule. I actually imagine it's not uncommon among Western European democracies, though I admit this is just an impression of mine and don't have solid proof of that right now.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#325028: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:52:03 AM

[up][up]Right. Most of their policies are actually bad for the economy as a whole, even as certain actors benefit greatly. I think it's more reasonable to call them the party of "fuck you, got mine" than of any rational economic theory.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 25th 2020 at 11:52:14 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325029: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:52:25 AM

Its probably more accurate to call them pro-capitalist. In that model, it is not just about business in general, but the business who gains the most profit and market share.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#325030: Aug 25th 2020 at 8:54:08 AM

It's about the business who gains the most market share by doing the most effective job of working the system, not by making the most competitive or best-priced products.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#325031: Aug 25th 2020 at 9:14:43 AM

If I remember my economic theory well, if they really were pro competition they'd be pushing for 13 of each big companies existing and fighting in the market.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#325033: Aug 25th 2020 at 10:07:39 AM

I guess they aren't pro-business in the sense of some idealized rational capitalist ethos but that's mostly a myth, Republican economic policy is what pro-business entities and parties support the world over. Slashing social programs, lowering taxes, deregulation, and privatizing almost everything.

It's not good for the economy but that has never stopped plutocrats and their allies/puppets.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#325034: Aug 25th 2020 at 10:36:51 AM

So, I wonder how much of this Melania speech is going to be taken from Michelle Obama?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#325035: Aug 25th 2020 at 11:16:38 AM

It's about the business who gains the most market share by doing the most effective job of working the system, not by making the most competitive or best-priced products.

Which is an inevitable outcome of capitalism. Everyone might start from the same starting line on the date that capitalism is officially adopted, but whoever wins today's competition is in a better position to win tomorrow's. And the winners of tomorrow will be in a better position for the day after.

Winning the race means you get to start fifty or a hundred or two hundred yards ahead when the next race begins. And as round after round after round of capitalism goes by, wealth and power are inevitably funneled into fewer and fewer hands as victories compound into easier and easier and easier victories.

It's a system where three people can each open their own fruit market and sure, whoever knows how to do business better may prevail. But if one of those people is motherfucking Walmart then it doesn't matter what the other two bring to the table, because even if they run their businesses better, they still can't compete with all of the unfair advantages Walmart brings with it from the moment it opens its new store in their neighborhood.

To the victor go all of the other races, because the system is designed to favor past winners. And that's why we live in the world we live in now, where megacorporations own every market, workers are routinely underpaid, and the nation's money continues pooling into fewer and fewer hands as year after year goes by.

Capitalism is not an even playing field. It is a system by which an even playing field can be gradually converted into a financial feudalist state. A means of labeling certain people in society as "Fundamentally Superior People" and reducing the rest of the population to serfs, laboring at the Better People's whim. Which is what Republicans want.

The reason that Republicans are so enraptured by authoritarianism and capitalism is because capitalism builds authoritarian states. They're just defined by brand labels instead of territory markers.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 25th 2020 at 11:21:27 AM

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#325036: Aug 25th 2020 at 11:35:52 AM

[up] Come on. Even Adam Smith recognized that you need regulatory checks on capitalism. It's plain as day in his writing.

Republicans aren't for classical capitalism as an economic model for stable societies; they are for predatory capitalism at its most basic level: the Rockefeller version.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#325037: Aug 25th 2020 at 11:44:47 AM

I'd argue that the GOP take on capitalism and what most non-academic critics of capitalism have come to associate with it is closer to Randian Objectivism than anything Adam Smith advocated for.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#325038: Aug 25th 2020 at 12:01:58 PM

Why can't you be expelled from a political party? Seems like an odd rule to have.

US political parties are in effect public organisations, not private ones. You don’t join a US party the way you do in say the UK, you just tell the government you identity with the party. That’s the reason primaries are governed by state law not internal party rules, it’s also why they’re government run.

I actually imagine it's not uncommon among Western European democracies, though I admit this is just an impression of mine and don't have solid proof of that right now.

Some kind of limit is common, but party membership is a rather extreme limit. Generally I think you see limits on political activists and conflating your job and your views.

So a teacher can’t campaign for a candidate on school grounds, a civil servant might not even be allowed to deliver leaflets for their party, but I know in the UK restricting party membership isn’t done unless you’re the Queen. But you could probably get in trouble for telling anyone your party membership in certain jobs.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325039: Aug 25th 2020 at 12:13:31 PM

I think having teachers be apolitical is perfectly reasonable. I feel education should be free of politics, and based on science and education, not on political doctrine (or religious doctrine, for that matter).

Besides, can you imagine the fit parents would throw if their kid's teacher was espousing the opposing party's politics in the classroom?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#325040: Aug 25th 2020 at 12:19:05 PM

Pretty sure there are already parents who think of essentially all education as 'liberal brainwashing'. *facepalm*

Thing is, you can technically restrict what you teach to the kids, but if the teacher is liberal or conservative and that slants how they teach, I can't imagine restricting them from formally declaring a party membership is going to do a whole lot.

Edited by PointMaid on Aug 25th 2020 at 3:19:41 PM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#325041: Aug 25th 2020 at 12:20:31 PM

Also even if you want education to be based on science, when some parties declare themselves opposed to such things...

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#325042: Aug 25th 2020 at 12:21:35 PM

As I said it’s about degrees, sure a teacher shouldn’t be campaigning in the classroom. But should they be allowed to phone bank for a candidate on weekends as long as they keep their politics off school grounds? I know at least one teacher who is an elected member of their local council. Even if you don’t want them campaigning, shouldn’t they be able to join a political party and donate money to that party?

Edited by Silasw on Aug 25th 2020 at 7:22:20 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#325043: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:35:07 PM

I had a High School Teacher who was an active and serving State Senator. he only taught senior level classes for the one Semester then was off the rest of the year. He taught current events as in what's happening right now. IIRC he was totally pissed off that the Berlin Wall came down during one of his 'off' semesters

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#325044: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:40:24 PM

I had a teacher who was an out and proud anarchist. He was cool.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#325045: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:44:52 PM

> IIRC he was totally pissed off that the Berlin Wall came down during one of his 'off' semesters

Why was he so upset about the Berlin wall coming down?Did he find the idea of a reunited Germany alarming somehow?

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Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#325046: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:47:22 PM

I believe they meant that he was upset in the "goddamn it, teaching this live would have been awesome " way.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Aug 25th 2020 at 5:47:35 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#325047: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:47:27 PM

[up][up]He was a teacher, presumably he wanted to teach about it.

Edit: I have been ambushed by a ninja.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 25th 2020 at 1:47:53 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
astrokitty Happiness is a cup of tea from Somewhere Out There Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Happiness is a cup of tea
#325048: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:49:06 PM

He was probably upset that he couldn't start talking about it as a current event once he returned.

Edit: jumped by multiple ninjas

Edited by astrokitty on Aug 25th 2020 at 4:49:41 AM

Somebody once told me the world was macaroni, I took a bite out of a tree
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#325049: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:51:08 PM

I read that post and my literal brain decided he was genuinely upset about a reunited Germany

Brain no

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#325050: Aug 25th 2020 at 1:58:40 PM

To be fair, Why We Are Bummed Communism Fell is a trope for a reason.

Ironically enough, a lot of those people live in the former DDR. Turns out the fall of communism wasn't a party for everyone involved.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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