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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yes, which is actually why I challenge that as it's a reactionary atavistic revolutionary ideology. It's like labeling anarchists as left wing. Yes, we have a lot of overlap but it's it's own thing.
But I am shooting myself in the foot by arguing definitions when my point is talking about the definition as anything other than itself is probably a bad idea.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 25th 2020 at 5:43:35 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.There is a good chance that in a few days Hurricane Laura will roar into Texas as a major hurricane. Some folks are already expecting a repeat of the Great Galveston Hurricane.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanBut you are arguing from a moral standpoint, not a political one. Saying "fascists are too evil for political labels" is a moral argument, but it says nothing about their actual politics. And fascists are politically conservative, that's just in their nature. A fascist liberal is an oxymoron, politically speaking.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesRe: Spencer: Nobody brought up the other theory? That he's wanting to "join" the Democratic party so that right wingers can point to this and say "See that? The Dems are so desperate to boost their numbers they're even letting in a Neo-Nazi!" Nevermind that the Biden campaign rejected his endorsement but that's still what will be claimed in some circles.
Actually, that was what I was thinking given that there are authoritarian conservative communist nations now.
- looks over at China
- looks over at North Korea
Am I wrong?
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 25th 2020 at 5:59:55 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I think it is unreasonable to make absolute statements about right- vs. left-wing politics and their respective levels of statism, oppression, and body counts. It is true that left-wing movements tend to frame themselves as "revolutionary" and thus justified in response to the right-wing status quo, but that does not make them inherently any more moral.
I hate judging things in terms of broad categories. They aren't helpful.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"The ideology is definitely left wing, but you could probably argue that its leadership is, in practice, conservative, because that is required to maintain their highly hierarchical and exclusionary power structure. A dictator will always tend towards conservatism, because that is how they preserve their absolute power.
Oh, I'm not saying that there are no immoral leftists, but you simply cannot run an authoritarian regime on a progressive agenda. This is likely where the horseshoe theory of politics comes in, where the extremes of left and right tend to be more similar than their more moderate forms.
Edited by Redmess on Aug 25th 2020 at 3:08:35 PM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesConsidering how it's been put into doubt that either can still be classified as communist - kinda?
Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that moving away from what this thread's about?
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 25th 2020 at 3:13:25 PM
We learn from history that we do not learn from historyAnarchism is not in and of itself a left-right thing. Hardcore libertarians are strongly allied with the right even as they disavow statism.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Anarchists are directly opposed to fascists. Fascists value absolute hierarchies, with an absolute leadership at the top, which in practice means an all-encompassing government structure. Anarchists, in contrast, are very much against hierarchy and government control.
Anarchists and fascists are natural enemies, much the same way as communists and fascists are.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesWell, that's what you get when you want to do away with the very idea of hierarchy and leadership itself. Every anarchist is naturally inclined to disavow following anyone else, and so are naturally hostile to everyone they perceive as "telling them what to believe and do".
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesYou can absolutely be organized without it being strictly hierarchal. Organizations are not inherently hierarchal, and a lot of anarchists who are not completely dogmatic Knight Templars about it will tolerate a small degree of hierarchy as long as it's informal or at least less than our current highly hierarchal structure. But this discussion is starting to veer into General Politics material.
Liberal fascist is an oxymoron because fascism is inherently and explicitly opposed to representative democracy and electoralism which are key components of liberalism.
Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 25th 2020 at 9:52:33 AM

Not really, fascists clearly overlap with right wing, conservative politics because fascism is, by definition, a conservative movement that values hierarchy over equality.
You can read Umberto Eco's theory on Ur-fascim
for more.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest times