Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
The platform change is concerning, while I’m not super happy about right-wingers appearing at the convention if they’re kept away from their extreme topics it can work.
I’d wait for us to see who speaks overall before we judge things. I know Bernie is speaking and I’d assume that Warren will be to. AOC isn’t the only young progressive, so even if we don’t get her we may get some of the ones who have been around a bit longer.
As for Biden, he’s neither an ideological progressive or ideologically something else and acting.
Biden isn’t an ideologue, with him it’s not actually about what he believes personally, it’s about him wanting to act to both represent all parts of the party (including the progressive wing) while also ensuring that things are done well.
Biden moves relative to the rest of the party, he doesn’t have a fixed place on the ideological spectrum.
Edited by Silasw on Aug 18th 2020 at 6:54:56 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranFrom non USA perspective, Trump is making things everywhere worse to the point I think lot of people are going to be mad at Americans if he wins again for whatever reason
(some people seem to be actually under impression that Biden is probably going to die in few years so this is actually about voting for the vice president. Which is uh... Yeah as I said, it is weird to compare opinions from america and elsewhere on elections)
Edited by SpookyMask on Aug 19th 2020 at 10:34:45 PM
The only place Trump has a good reputation is parts of the Middle East because Qasem Soleimani was considered an Evil Overlord in a lot of places.
It's just they killed Darth Vader for all the wrong reasons and to start a devastating war.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 19th 2020 at 12:39:38 PM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Having Republicans speak at the convention allows the DNC to draw a line in the sand and say that there are actually three parties in this race:
- Democrats
- Republicans
- Trumpists
They've reframed the impending general election as "The two Parties of American Democracy these last centuries v. a third-party fascist movement that's usurped Washington and corrupted our sense of normalcy".
That's not really an accurate take on Trumpism but it is a useful one. They've put up a "Not A Normal Election" banner, giving moderate Conservatives permission to vote against Trump without feeling like traitors to the GOP or to their own values for doing so.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 19th 2020 at 7:37:49 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.On the prior discussion, I certainly don't think anyone is unreasonable for disliking Kasich speaking. But as long as he doesn't (or didn't?) speak about policy I don't think it's harmful, it's just an attempt to court right-wing voters to increase the chances of getting Trump out of office. I think that's a worthy goal.
The fossil fuels thing is much more questionable but in the case of Fracking (which it's presumably about) things aren't necessarily clear cut
.
Look, if the Left/AOC elements want more speaking time and influence, they could probably get a ton more support from Democrats by just saying Democrats are good. Maybe not even that far. They could just say you have something in common with Democrats, even if it's broad and abstract. AOC is a first term congresswomen, her getting any speaking time is all but unprecedented. Meanwhile these are the headlines for Kasich speaking.
Nobody's compromised on policy having another enemy say "Hey, Trump is real bad and needs to go."
I'll be upset when John Kasich starts assigning committee chairs. We haven't given any inch to him on policy.
Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 19th 2020 at 7:54:18 AM
The Kamala Harris pick is a hit with voters so far
although apparently w/o changing the polling margins appreciably.
In fairness, this isn't the worst logic. The Vice President would take the place of the president in situations of crisis, so caring about how is the VP is reasonable.
Watch me destroying my countryIn fairness, this isn't the worst logic. The Vice President would take the place of the president in situations of crisis, so caring about how is the VP is reasonable.
Agreed.
It's just a medical reality that Biden could die in office, the healthcare the President has access to is good enough to probably reduce the odds significantly but even so modern medicine isn't magical. There will always be a chance that he could die and his VP would take power.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangIn Trump's defense, to my understanding the POTUS actually does have very strong incentives to not show signs of illness. Once people think there's a non-trivial chance of you dying in office, they start looking for your replacement and you lose a lot of support. FDR also hid his own illness for the exact reason.
So, no, Trump refusing to show that he has some sort of serious health problem is not necessarily him just being an egotistical idiot, it's actually more or less what he must do.
Admittedly, Trump does have a massive ego problem, but even then, his ego is at least giving him good advice this one time.
Edited by Protagonist506 on Aug 19th 2020 at 10:49:17 AM
Leviticus 19:34@Tobias Drake:I'm rather skeptical as to whether such a message would actually resonate. In fact I really don't understand the desire to open up to Republicans to such a degree.
The Lincoln Project already demonstrated that at least some of these "never-Trump" Republicans are intent on moving the Democratic Party to the right, and I see no reason to believe that these people who spoke at the convention won't want to as well. After all, they have not stated that their pre-Trump views have changed and they have moved to the left, they just don't like Trump being so overtly toxic.
That may seem like a great weakness to exploit nonetheless, but I'm not sure how many of these on the fence regretful Trump voters actually exist, and whether it is worth shelving necessary structural policy and marginalizing the left-wing of the party in order to appeal to them.
This is of course assuming that this is just an electoral strategy as opposed to an actual expression of the actual ideology of the Democratic leadership, which I wouldn't discount either.
@Tobias Drake:I'm rather skeptical as to whether such a message would actually resonate. In fact I really don't understand the desire to open up to Republicans to such a degree.
I'm not sure where the confusion is, it's meant to weaken Trump's support by appealing to right-wing voters who may be less than fond of Trump. That's who it's supposed to resonate with.
That may seem like a great weakness to exploit nonetheless, but I'm not sure how many of these on the fence regretful Trump voters actually exist, and whether it is worth shelving necessary structural policy and marginalizing the left-wing of the party in order to appeal to them.
This is of course assuming that this is just an electoral strategy as opposed to an actual expression of the actual ideology of the Democratic leadership, which I wouldn't discount either.
No, there is absolutely no reason to assume that it's being done for idealogical reasons. It's obviously being done to appeal to voters.
Furthermore, you'll have to prove that any policy was shelved specifically because of Kasich speaking there.
Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 19th 2020 at 11:20:30 AM
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

Biden seems to be stealing the Greatest Hits of his primary opponents and that's fine by me.
I'm not this guy.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 18th 2020 at 11:03:15 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.