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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Actually that Ukraine Phone Call was a INSANELY IDIOTIC STUPID move, if you are going to commit an impeachable offence (AKA Blackmail)it would be a GOOD idea to NOT commit said offence on a line that is not only recorded and transcribed but also being actively listened in on by several people including those who are not blindly loyal to you.
Not really, I take it as an example that he does have enough of an intellect to commit fraud and plot against others. I'm not saying he is very good at it (not at all, actually), but he is good at using his influence to get away with it, or to evade consequences.
That's basically what I said earlier, that this is Trump's way of bluffing his way through criminal acts. He does it so blatantly and openly that people have a much weaker reaction to it than if he tried to cover it up.
He's dumb, but not so dumb that he isn't dangerous.
Edited by Redmess on Aug 18th 2020 at 6:19:41 PM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesMaybe the problem is that you are viewing lack of consequences (well, putting aside the fact he was impeached) as evidence of genius?
Yeah, I can acknowledge that doing it openly probably helps some. But what also helps is the fact that Republicans are so partisan that they just don't think of anything Trump does is wrong.
And while it's less true with the Ukraine scheming than with the earlier Russia scheming, but I also wouldn't totally put aside the fact that leftists tended not to particularly care about those actions either, because they see Democrats as Asshole Victims / believe all politicians are evil and corrupt.
Edited by Hodor2 on Aug 18th 2020 at 11:24:36 AM
I don't think that really addresses the above posts.
Something to note is that Nixon engaged in somewhat comparable (but less serious) illegal scheming than Trump and did have consequences, arguably in large part because Republicans were less partisan / Fox News didn't exist to launder his behavior.
The main reason Trump is getting away with shit is because the Republican Party is more interested in holding onto power than they are in whatever illusion of principles or morals they might have once espoused.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 18th 2020 at 6:31:23 PM
We learn from history that we do not learn from historyYes, and Trump knows this and is taking full advantage of it. It is not something accidental that just happened to be that way. Trump has worked for years ousting Republicans who would not support him, doing the same with judges, including the Supreme Court, putting cronies in places of power.
He knows perfectly well what he is doing there. He is consolidating his power.
Edited by Redmess on Aug 18th 2020 at 6:31:23 PM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesAgain, that is not intelligence. Trump is a narcissist who wants to be surrounded by sycophants. Blatantly ostracising those that won't fall in with what you want might be a way to build a power base when people are going along with it, but the underlying pattern of behaviour is not a calculated attempt at gaining power.
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But how do you know so sure that it isn't a calculated attempt to build a power base? What are you basing that on?
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I never said he was a genius. There is plenty of room between moron and genius for malice, you know. I doubt most dictators are geniuses, but that hardly stops them.
Edited by Redmess on Aug 18th 2020 at 6:36:59 PM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest times![]()
I'm just waiting for my ballot to arrive in the mail. Here's hoping the USPS still exists in October-November.
Edited by Fighteer on Aug 18th 2020 at 12:37:44 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"![]()
Try the last several years. Or maybe the entirety of Trump's life.
The main reason this hasn't bit Trump in the ass yet is because he's always been protected from the consequences of his actions his entire life.
A Spoiled Brat acting like a spoiled brat isn't genius.
Edited by M84 on Aug 19th 2020 at 12:38:50 AM
Disgusted, but not surprisedAnd don't forget the GOP isn't backing/protecting Trump because they like him, they are only protecting him because he just happens to be in the Oval Office and has a (R) next to his name.
He's still a slightly useful idiot, he's allowing Mitch and Co to stack the courts so they will keep him in power as long as he stays a useful idiot. But if he loses in November expect Mitch and company to start quietly distancing themselves from him.
If he was deliberately building a power base, he wouldn't be so quick to throw out everyone USEFUL and would occasionally consider the idea of rewarding loyalty. Instead, those close to him profit by taking advantage of how easily lead and bribed he is. His sycophants play him, not the other way around.
You keep ignoring my point, and putting words in my mouth.
That's a better argument. I think he views them as useful idiots that he can manipulate. That may also be why he likes to keep them fighting amongst themselves, so that they won't have time to turn on him.
Edited by Redmess on Aug 18th 2020 at 6:45:49 PM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesThe point being made, as I'm following it, is that while Trump's actions can indeed look like a consolidation of power, they can just as easily be read as the actions of a moronic bully of a narcissist, and the bulk of Trump's past history suggests the latter is far more likely than the former.
He's acting like a moronic bully of a narcissist. While this is helping him consolidate power, Trump's general lack of foresight suggests this is a side effect, not a goal.
Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 18th 2020 at 9:45:55 AM
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You're the one consistently over-estimating Trump, underestimating the Democratic Party, misrepresenting people here as not caring about what's happening when you're the one who apparently doesn't know the meaning of the word "coup"...
Edited by M84 on Aug 19th 2020 at 12:44:01 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised

@Aszur - Thank you.
Yeah. Just because previous Presidents haven't generally used their routine diplomatic calls as a means of sabotaging political opponents doesn't mean that it is clever that Trump does.
Edited by Hodor2 on Aug 18th 2020 at 11:14:58 AM