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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323626: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:01:22 PM

Are there still any conservatives left on the forum? What would a conservative without all the nasty stuff even look like these days?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#323627: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:03:55 PM

The saner conservatives are the right-wing of the Democratic party these days.

Edited by Clarste on Aug 12th 2020 at 2:04:42 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#323628: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:04:03 PM

Probably like this

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GoosefromWikipedia (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#323630: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:06:21 PM

I think the "moderate conservatives" are remaining quiet and hoping people don't notice them in the crossfire. That said, a lot of what passes for moderate conservatism these days consists mainly of thinking that the Democrats are radical socialists who want to tax us to death and remove our freedom of speech but not agreeing that we should kill or imprison all the immigrants and minorities.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#323631: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:06:38 PM

So Sean Hannity asked Trump a question about his reaction to Kamala Harris's attacks on Biden about race.

And this was the answer:

"Well first of all what you said about Russia the New York Times is fake reporting, it's a fake newspaper as far as I'm concerned, and er, Washington Post likewise I always try and figure out which is worse. And then you have CNN, and frankly ABC, CBS, NBC, and but you have some good ones in between, locals are great, locals we do great in, er, I couldn't possibly be here, and on, er, social media, I don't, does anybody do better in terms of er people watching and the importance of social media is so we get the word out but you know the sad thing is you have so many incredibly talented writers, journalists, frankly including yourself cuz I consider you really a journalist to, to a very, to the largest extent the job you've done cuz you got the Russia hoax correct, and your people that came on that show night after night including by the way, er, our great Congressman, and, and Senators, and Senators, you had John Kennedy on tonight you have a lot of em on, but, a lotta people got it right, and a lot of our Congress, and, and Senate, they got it right, and, they got it wrong and they got Pulitzer Prizes the Pulitzer Prize is worthless as far as I'm concerned because when you have the Maggie Habermans getting a Pulitzer Prize and she got it all wrong she doesn't I haven't spoken to her in forever, she's like my biographer, like she knows everything about me she knows nothing about me, and they talk about they have sources they don't have sources they're made up they make em up in their mind they have no sources I know when there are sources but, if you look at the Times and I guess the Washington Post they got Pulitzer Prizes and they were totally wrong. And they got em I guess before the end result. And there was no collusion, and now this thing turns out to be a total hoax and now it finds out that we caught Obama, Biden, er, that's why I didn't think that Susan Rice could get it cuz she's part of this whole, er, illegal thing that happened which is one of the worst perhaps the worst, political scandal in the history of our country, and they got caught, now let's see what happens but they're caught red-handed, and, er, but these writers, the writers got Pulitzer Prizes, and that shows you a Pulitzer Prize is worthless and frankly you ought to start a petition to return the Pulitzer prize cuz they were all wrong, they were wrong on the, on the whole subject of, Russia Russia Russia it was made up, fabricated, it was a crime that was committed, and you look at Hillary Clinton where she paid for the fake dossier and now the dossier is proven to be totally fake, it's a disgrace what happened and no other president should have to go through it Sean."

At no point in this rambling stream of dialogue did it even remotely approach anything resembling a coherent thought, nor one remotely engaged with the question or the person it was asking about.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#323632: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:11:06 PM

Is there any doubt that Trump is unfit for office both in intent and ability?

I mean, Pence does 90% of the paperwork as is.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 12th 2020 at 2:11:20 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#323633: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:15:36 PM

Are there still any conservatives left on the forum?

Depends how you define conservative. The couple Republicans left on the forums generally either avoid this thread of the entity of OTC. There are members of right-wing parties in other countries that hang around, there are a couple non-Republican Americans troopers who identify as conservative and pop up occasionally, then there’s people who match the traditional ideological concept of conservatism but don’t identify with the specific concept.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#323634: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:16:24 PM

Wow. I am amazed by that little display. 278 words in one sentence and not a single mention of the actual topic (Harris).

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323635: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:17:23 PM

[up][up][up][up] (You guys post so fast! grin) Yes, he does that a lot actually, when he has not prepared an answer. And often even when he has prepared one. Trump's train of thought gets easily sidetracked into other topics on his mind.

As for America not being founded as a Christian nation, I find that a bit debatable. The Puritans were a rather large influence throughout the colonial period, and the Constitution and codes of law were based on English ideas, which in turn are very much rooted in Christianity.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 12th 2020 at 11:17:33 AM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#323636: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:20:26 PM

[up]I think (but can’t remember why I think this, I feel like it was prior discussion on this very forum) that the Puritans’ real desire for what they called religious freedom was because they weren’t okay with how the Church of England was growing more accepting, and they wanted to be “free” to impose their beliefs on others. Reminds me of certain demographics today...

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Aug 12th 2020 at 5:20:47 AM

My musician page
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#323637: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:21:02 PM

[up][up][up]Yep. No mention of race either. Only one mention of Biden, and it was an offhand reference in a completely different context.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323638: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:29:32 PM

[up][up] Yes, but the colonies were still rooted on Christian tradition, in a way that you could not say for, for example, Islam. The country may not have been founded as explicitly Christian, but it certainly stood in a mainly Christian tradition.

You could perhaps argue that it was a Judeo-Christian tradition, though.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#323639: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:31:37 PM

[up]Yeah, that was exactly my point. They claimed religious freedom, but that was a lie from day one.

My musician page
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323640: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:34:47 PM

[up] Well... it was religious freedom... for them.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
GoosefromWikipedia (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
#323641: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:51:16 PM

I feel like Trump won't stop until he gets the universe named after him.

tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#323642: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:14:22 PM

You need to distinguish between the United States as a legal entity and America as a cultural entity. The United States, as in the country founded on the Constitution was explicitly not founded as a Christian nation, there were arguments about it during the Constitutional Convention and the pro-Christianity forces lost. However there's no doubt that the people who created the United States were overwhelmingly Christian in upbringing and outlook and that the vast majority of Americans, even those who aren't themselves Christian or are ex-Christian grew up in a cultural stew dominated by Christianity

Edited by tricksterson on Aug 12th 2020 at 6:16:24 AM

Trump delenda est
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#323643: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:14:27 PM

To answer a previous question, I am conservative, though I am anti-Trump and was long before he won the Republican primary.

Leviticus 19:34
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#323644: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:25:14 PM

[up] Which was the last good Repulican president in your opinion, out of interest?

Edited by Forenperser on Aug 12th 2020 at 12:26:37 PM

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Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#323645: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:28:00 PM

" Well... it was religious freedom... for them."

Probably worth noting that the Puritans in the Massachusetts Bay Colony drove out other Puritans over religious differences as well. That's why some of the other New England colonies came into the existence. Trying to get Puritans to agree with each other could be like herding cats.

The south you go, the less the influence. Pennsylvania was founded by a completely different denomination called Quakers. Maryland was Catholic. New York established religious and social tolerance as part of the negotiations to surrender the colony from the Dutch. Virginia and the Carolinas were established with the full intention of developing cash crops and these colonies were where slavery really took off.

Virginia, or Jamestown in particular, was the first permanent American settlement and has as much claim to developing American society as Plymouth and its Pilgrims do.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#323646: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:29:56 PM

Conservatives!? Burn the witch!

But yes I would figure a lot of conservatives would come from nations other than the U.S as the definitions there vary a lot.

Like, my country is mostly super conservative but only the most radical of (mostly stupid libertarians) would suggest getting rid of our public healthcare system. Most of them owuld vouch fighting to the deth for our socialized healthcare system.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323647: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:30:01 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] But my argument is that the ideas that the US was founded on still come from a Christian tradition of law and government. You can't really untangle Christian philosophy from Western political thought.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 12th 2020 at 12:31:39 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#323648: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:32:00 PM

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/08/12/conspiracy-steal-election-folks-alarms-sound-after-postal-worker-reports-removal

Oh, the Post Office's sorting machines are being removed in order to cripple its service.

Can we just go after this guys taxes or something? He is a criminal.

Seconded. This is a blatant attempt to steal the election by suppressing the vote. He needs to be removed from his post. NOW.

Edited by speedyboris on Aug 12th 2020 at 3:33:39 AM

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#323649: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:38:44 PM

[up][up]

Under that argument, wouldn't every country in Western Europe and all of their colonies also be Christian nations?

I'd say that the U.S. isn't a Christian nation, because the "Founders" were ideologically simpatico with the Enlightenment, and deliberately made religion less tied to government than was the case in England.

PointMaid Since: Jun, 2014
#323650: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:39:43 PM

[up][up][up] The founding of the US as a nation was mostly on Enlightenment philosophy.

Age of Enlightenment

"The Enlightenment included a range of ideas centered on the sovereignty of reason and the evidence of the senses as the primary sources of knowledge and advanced ideals such as liberty, progress, toleration, fraternity, constitutional government and separation of church and state.[5][6] In France, the central doctrines of the Enlightenment philosophers were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the fixed dogmas of the Church. The Enlightenment was marked by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism, along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy—an attitude captured by Immanuel Kant's essay Answering the Question: What is Enlightenment, where the phrase Sapere aude (Dare to know) can be found.[7]"

Bolded emphasis mine.

EDIT: partially [nja]'d

Edited by PointMaid on Aug 12th 2020 at 6:39:59 AM


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