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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#323501: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:35:57 PM

Please calm down — you're not helping. Step away from this thread if it's making things this bad for your mental well being.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#323502: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:37:52 PM

War is unlikely because trying to start an international war between superpowers now would completely destroy economies and supply chains. Which is the entire reason globalisation was encouraged so much in the first place.

AngrokVa indighost from america, unfortunately Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: Saddled with unnecessary feelings
indighost
#323503: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:38:39 PM

Okay, I'll calm down. But seriously, is there any way to avoid any further conflict with China of any kind? I'm not getting any clear answers to this question. Well, except the above, that scratches out the possibility of flat-out conventional war.

Edited by AngrokVa on Aug 11th 2020 at 12:40:16 PM

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#323504: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:39:49 PM

Threaten them economically, because their economy is a zombie. China does not want a war with the west.

AngrokVa indighost from america, unfortunately Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: Saddled with unnecessary feelings
indighost
#323505: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:41:32 PM

So it's the US trying to pick a fight...

God, I hate my country right now.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#323506: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:45:38 PM

Dude, take a break. Nobody is trying to pick a fight with China; China is being aggressive in the South China Sea and the border with India, but nobody is picking a fight with them. Economic retaliation is pretty warranted given all the shit they're pulling but even that isn't plausibly going to lead to war because the costs associated for even starting it are too high all around.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#323507: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:46:41 PM

Didn't I just say that the issue isn't just on one end. As [up] pointed out, the CCP is engaging in plenty of their own bullshit too.

Disgusted, but not surprised
AngrokVa indighost from america, unfortunately Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: Saddled with unnecessary feelings
indighost
#323508: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:48:58 PM

Okay then. I'll take a break from the US Politics thread. I'll come back when I feel I can talk about this stuff more calmly.

Edited by AngrokVa on Aug 11th 2020 at 12:50:41 PM

AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#323509: Aug 11th 2020 at 9:54:30 PM

Relax, seriously. We survived forty years of being at the throat of the Soviets and vise-versa, fingers inches away from the buttons, up to and including shooting each others planes and invading allies.

And yet, the tanks never rolled across the North German Plain, Hokkaido didn't become the graveyard of aircraft, and the deadliest mushrooms didn't break a second sunrise across the world.

Compared to the tensions of the Cold War, the tensions of today are a minor blip. Take a breath. We are not in danger yet. With luck, we won't be.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#323510: Aug 11th 2020 at 10:35:14 PM

The US is hardly ‘picking a fight’ tbh.

If anything Trump is softballing the entire thing, and harming the US while he is at it, and just pretending to be ‘tough on China’.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#323511: Aug 11th 2020 at 10:41:40 PM

It's kind of funny in a Black Humor sort of way that Xi wants Biden to win despite the fact Biden will certainly be tougher on their crimes against humanity, apparently because Xi just finds Trump such a blistering idiot.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
devak They call me.... Prophet Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
#323512: Aug 11th 2020 at 10:51:03 PM

Trump is hardballing china, but in a dumb way. For one, there's fairly broad international consensus that China is a problem that needs to be dealt with. But Trump's alienating any potential ally, vastly limiting what he could do. Additionally we're in an intermediate phase. The previous strategy was that capitalism would magically make China a democratic state, but it didn't. Now we're figuring out what we can do about it.

Lastly, a direct shooting war won't happen. All it would take for Xi to back down is a map of intelligence on US war capability. All it would take for the US to back down is any strategy to deal with china militarily. It's too dumb to happen. the risk is not in direct war but in accidents. It's like the North Korea problem: should the US detect an incoming missile from North Korea, it would hit in about 30 minutes. 10 of these would be to confirm the nature and target. 10 minutes to organize a response. 10 minutes for the president to make a decision based on minimal information. Similar logic applies to other incidents, where conditions are bad, threats are real, there's little intel and no time to mull decisions. in such circumstances, it comes down to goodwill.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#323513: Aug 11th 2020 at 10:57:25 PM

Xi's situation is the fact that he's a hardline true believer and ethnostate pusher.

However, he's also been made dictator for life on a long period of economic prosperity and growth. Events have derailed that, which is never good for someone selling themselves as an infallible messiah. Also, notable is the fact that unlike most dictators he does have a rather powerful committee behind him that he has to satisfy.

And the thing about China and America is the fact the two have had utterly entwined economies for over half a century.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 11th 2020 at 10:58:24 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Imca (Veteran)
#323514: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:17:35 AM

All it would take for Xi to back down is a map of intelligence on US war capability.

Or you know just realizing that he has no capacity to land troops in North or South Amercia, Naval landings are hard as hell... Let alone naval landings with the worlds largest naval force hostily contending the route...

Just ask the Germans about operation sea lion, and that was just a fucking channel dash, not crossing the entire pacific ocean.

This is why the US's relations with Korea and Japan scare the shit out of the Chinese diplomatically, it means that in the unfathomable event that a shooting war happens, the US starts with a beachhead to land troops in, they have to force one.

Edit: For clarity, even when every posible thing is going your way naval landings are STILL a nightmare in any war scenario, look at D-Day, and how that took years of preparation still even with both of the worlds largest navies at the time spearheading it.

Edited by Imca on Aug 12th 2020 at 2:18:50 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#323515: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:20:49 AM

Sarah Palin opens mouth, something not horrible comes out. Huh.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#323516: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:25:54 AM

Well that was very human.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#323517: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:26:55 AM

I'm guessing she didn't come up with that all by herself. Probably had to run it by a PR team or something first.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#323518: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:30:57 AM

It does look like something she wrote herself,without outside assistance

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#323519: Aug 12th 2020 at 2:46:00 AM

I suspect that it’s genuine, Palin doesn't gain anything by improving her standing with democrats, plus it’s got enough things in it that Harris will know (the campaigning basics stuff) that I don’t think an actual PR person would include.

I’d put it in the same category as the fact that Bush has probably had a few genuine moments of comradery with Obama over the years.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#323521: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:13:43 AM

[up][up] Bush is personal friends with Michelle Obama, which yeah, is weird to say the least.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323522: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:23:23 AM

I don't think you should underestimate China as a military power that easily. I'm sure if they wanted to, they could land a military force on the west coast of the US. The US did it themselves on D-day, as mentioned above, and they didn't exactly have a beachhead either. And you can bet they have planned for such a thing already, the same way the US plans for these kinds of scenarios, just in case.

And it is rather arrogant to think that just being nominally more powerful than someone else automatically means you would win the war and no one would even try. Has Vietnam taught you nothing at all? The US did not exactly win that one, despite being much more powerful. Vietnam demonstrated that any power can be fought to a standstill with the right tactics.

As for who is being belligerent here, the US certainly is not helping by holding drills in the South China Sea and allowing near misses to happen regularly. Those are not the actions of a country who wants to avoid war at all costs.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#323523: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:39:56 AM

> . I'm sure if they wanted to, they could land a military force on the west coast of the US.

Only place they're going to land in that absurd situation is the sea,they're would never survive the onslaught of submarines and aircraft.

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#323524: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:42:56 AM

The US did it themselves on D-day, as mentioned above, and they didn't exactly have a beachhead either.

The Pacific Ocean is much larger than the English Channel. D-day was an operation carried out from the U.K, landers didn’t cross the entire Atlantic.

Also I’d ask that you please not feed the anxiety of someone who is clearly having issues, especially as it’s really not on topic.

If we want to talk about the reasons a direct US-China war (which wouldn't inherently include an invasion of the US) is unlikely we can do so in the military thread.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323525: Aug 12th 2020 at 3:44:06 AM

They have those too, you know. And that argument goes the other way too. Having forward bases is nice, but it is not everything.

[up] Sorry, I did not mean to do that, I was just responding to the general topic from yesterday.

Edited by Redmess on Aug 12th 2020 at 12:46:31 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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