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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#323051: Aug 9th 2020 at 3:56:46 PM

Just make sure you don't copy us Brits, where the party that wins the election basically assumes complete and total power while the opposition parties sit in the opposite bench in the Commons and spend most of the time drafting 'what we'll do if we win next time' papers and occasionally making furious demands that the party in power is under no obligation to actually listen to or act upon - and as far as I can tell, this is by design. :V

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#323052: Aug 9th 2020 at 3:56:50 PM

A multiparty system is no guarantee of a good outcome, especially when paired with F Pt P, but it does allow for more representation of the opinions of those on the ground.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#323053: Aug 9th 2020 at 3:59:26 PM

[up] This is why I prefer it. Right now we have a ton of people under the Democratic Party, too many to count. We have Progressives, Moderates, older school Republicans (Rockafeller), people with so many conflicting ideas and beliefs that we have so much infighting because we cannot represent everybody due to how many are under this tent.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Aug 9th 2020 at 7:01:02 AM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#323054: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:01:04 PM

[up][up][up][up]Maybe let him offer some before you decide that?

Swear some of y'all consider yourselves mind-readers...

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 9th 2020 at 7:02:26 AM

i'm tired, my friend
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#323055: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:02:17 PM

To go from "A multiparty Parliamentary system isn't great and I think America's two-party with primaries might be superior" to "you're okay with corruptio then?" is something of a leap.

Why wouldn't I want to work on fixing what we have, rather than swapping out for an even more chaotic and imperfect system that needs to also be fixed? And multiparty systems aren't free of corruption. Israel's PM is facing jailtime for it

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 9th 2020 at 4:04:23 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#323056: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:03:42 PM

The thing with multiparty systems is that while it does allow for more parties that represent specific ideologies, from what I understand it still means that you're going to have to coalition build and make concessions to people you won't necessarily agree with or like from other parties, because you won't have the numbers to get electoral victories and a government by yourself necessarily. It's not necessarily something that's going avoid squabbling.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Aug 9th 2020 at 7:10:02 AM

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#323057: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:04:53 PM

[up][up] How can we fix a 2 party system? How can we fix something that by design leads to an "Us vs Them" mentality? How can we fix something where all it takes is one party to have a simple majority and then force everything they want in without even allowing the other party to be able to stop it?

Edited by ScubaWolf on Aug 9th 2020 at 7:05:36 AM

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#323058: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:06:35 PM

The benefit of a multi-party system is that it at least allows your favored party to negotiate starting at your positions, instead of having the party start from a different ideological standpoint and then move further away. Having said that, it is not a Panachaea for corruption or intra-party squabbles.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#323059: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:07:01 PM

The thing with a multiparty system is that to really be better it really should not be first-past-the-post. Just the option to vote for "literally anyone who's not a nutjob" is what would make all the difference.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Aug 9th 2020 at 7:07:21 AM

My musician page
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#323060: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:09:43 PM

That's where checks and balances have come in.

But, uh....why are you assuming this isn't a problem with multiparty systems? Again, look at the UK. Labour nearly tore itself apart and the Tories have near total control of the government. You see it plenty in multi-party systems because the left vote is way easier to splinter than the right.

Such systems tend to usually form two coalitions in the end and more than one has been taken over by a far-right government. The problems in America are way deeper than just this. And there's zero popular will for it, just like getting rid of the Senate.

Edited by Lightysnake on Aug 9th 2020 at 4:10:23 AM

ScubaWolf from South Carolina Since: Feb, 2020
#323061: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:12:39 PM

[up] That fault also lies in First Past the Post. Getting rid of that would help substantially.

"In a move surprising absolutely no one"
Imca (Veteran)
#323062: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:13:02 PM

Multiparty systems that still use fppt inherently benifit the right wing more then the left.

The right falls in line, the left demands to fall in love.

This is how the LDP has had power for more then 70 years, dont coppy it when the Tories do the same thing.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#323063: Aug 9th 2020 at 4:42:31 PM

Coming from a multiparty country, I'd argue that First Past The Post is a far bigger issue to address. That's what cements 1-2 (usually big tent) parties as dominant. That's what encourages strategic voting.

[up]Yup. Canada has 3 (4 if you count the Bloc Quebecois, but they are weirdos) center/center-left/left-wing parties, and one right-wing party. Its a global factor, the right unifies and is willing to be more flexible (until the internal purges of moderates happen). The left splinters.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Aug 9th 2020 at 8:44:06 AM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#323064: Aug 9th 2020 at 5:05:50 PM

Why is that, anyway? It's not like Right-Wing groups don't have internal disputes; feels like every other week, the GOP is exiling its own people for being insufficiently pro-Trump - in a true multi-party system, that's a potential recruit for an alternative Right-Wing party.

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#323065: Aug 9th 2020 at 5:17:50 PM

Bad choice of words. But I did think of the same thing, only to be told that the GOP would likely buy out any separatist conservative parties.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Imca (Veteran)
#323066: Aug 9th 2020 at 5:41:49 PM

Why is because they actualy do hate minorities more then they hate eachother, the left claims that they dislike the right more then themselfs, but when it comes time for action, they show otherwise.

People vastly underestimate how strong hatred is as a motivator, negitive emotions motivate people much, much more then positive ones psycologicaly speaking.

Edited by Imca on Aug 9th 2020 at 5:44:16 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323067: Aug 9th 2020 at 5:46:57 PM

Trump declares TikTok, WeChat "national emergency," preps bans: Admin's "Clean Networks" initiative aims to curtail Chinese tech firms in the US.

This is part of the State department's "clean network" initiative, though of course they won't go after Twitter or Facebook.

So, what was that about China supporting Trump, again?

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#323068: Aug 9th 2020 at 5:48:07 PM

I've read this week articles on White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Christianity and Qanon specifically and how the people involved desperately need Trump to be a messiah that will restore the "natural" racial pecking order because they can't deal with losing their perceived privilege being lost.

And its a generational one as even young evangelicals don't have the same level of racism and homophobia — which means they think they're losing their children because apparently hate is an identifier they think the absence of is important.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/09/us/evangelicals-trump-christianity.html

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#323069: Aug 9th 2020 at 5:52:39 PM

About that Gerogia school that banned a student for posting a picture, I find it a bit worrying how eager schools are these days to police their students' social media and phone use. Suspending someone for posting something unfavourable to their school seems very iffy to me.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Steven (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#323070: Aug 9th 2020 at 5:58:26 PM

Speaking of that school, several students tested positive for COVID and now the school is all "umm...yyeeaaaah maybe we'll go back to remote learning after all."

Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#323071: Aug 9th 2020 at 6:00:02 PM

Bad choice of words.

Is it because the hypothetical 'alternative Right-Wing party' would somehow manage to be even worse, and would oppose Trump because he's not being cruel enough in their eyes? ...I suppose that is also an internal dispute among some far-right groups, but not one where the outcome makes any meaningful difference, at least if you'd rather that elected officials aren't needlessly cruel.

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Aug 9th 2020 at 2:01:01 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#323072: Aug 9th 2020 at 6:06:07 PM

Speaking of that school, several students tested positive for COVID and now the school is all "umm...yyeeaaaah maybe we'll go back to remote learning after all."

They should have people shouting in their faces, "WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?"

They shouldn't be allowed to go 'oops.'

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Imca (Veteran)
#323073: Aug 9th 2020 at 8:05:09 PM

To be fair to the schools, Trump has threatend to cut funding if they don't re-open to in-person learning, and a school cant exist under a capatilist socioty without money unfortunatly. :/

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#323074: Aug 9th 2020 at 8:05:41 PM

[up][up][up]Well, in a more literal sense, the alt-right have basically taken over the GOP, so the wording might not have aged well. If you were thinking of a Conservative party to the left of the current one, that would indeed be a lousy term to use. If you were thinking something further right, it would still be accurate given that it used to be that way.

Edited by RainingMetal on Aug 9th 2020 at 8:07:01 AM

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#323075: Aug 9th 2020 at 9:11:11 PM

Why is that, anyway? It's not like Right-Wing groups don't have internal disputes; feels like every other week, the GOP is exiling its own people for being insufficiently pro-Trump - in a true multi-party system, that's a potential recruit for an alternative Right-Wing party.

To add some anecdotal evidence to this that doesn't directly support any conclusion: In the most recent Canadian election, there was actually an attempt to create an Alternative Right-Wing party. A far-right one to constrast the centre-right Conservatives. They got electorally thrashed, with the MPs who left the Tories to create the new party getting uniformly replaced by Conservatives. Whereas the left-wing alternative parties all did reasonably well

Edited by Gilphon on Aug 9th 2020 at 12:11:18 PM


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