TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#290926: Sep 25th 2019 at 9:53:57 AM

[up] Yeah; Pence doesn't have the same pull as Trump does with the radicalized Republican Base, and if Trump is impeached (somehow) or leaves on his own, that would be massively demoralizing to all Republicans and they'd basically let the Blue Wave engulf most of the Country for the next 2 years.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#290927: Sep 25th 2019 at 9:56:09 AM

First I just wanted to reply to something from past pages before getting to more recent stuff:

I think Elizabeth Warren will probably never mention Native Americans again, sadly.

But yes, any candidate who wants to help our most disadvantaged citizens would get my vote.

She was a pretty big hit at the largest Native forum in the country back at around the end of August

    Warren gets standing applause at Native American forum 
GREENE: Mark Trahant is editor of the news website Indian Country Today. He's been covering the forum and joins me. Mark, welcome to the program.

MARK TRAHANT: Good morning.

GREENE: And we should say you're also emceeing the forum, right? You're doing some double duty.

TRAHANT: Yeah, I'm the moderator.

GREENE: All right. Well, what - can you tell me what it feels like? I mean, eight presidential candidates coming to speak there - is this really different in terms of turnout, in terms of tone from the past?

TRAHANT: Well, certainly, it elevates Native American issues to a level that just hasn't been part of the conversation before. Instead of having candidates do their normal stump speech, they're really forced to address things that don't get talked about very much, like treaty rights and the role of the Indian health system and that sort of thing.

GREENE: Dig into some of those issues a little more, if you can, and help me understand what is really important to a lot of voters who come to a forum like this.

TRAHANT: Sure. There are some 500-plus tribal governments that have a history that predates the United States. And many of those tribes have direct treaties with the United States that have responsibilities. And every Congress and every president talks about the role of treaties, but very few have actually said, this is what needs to happen in order to have the treaties executed fully, including, for example, full funding of the Indian health system. It's the only direct federal system for health care in this country. In many ways, when you talk about "Medicare for All" or something like that, looking at the Indian Health Service would be an example of how to do it right and how to do it wrong, what works and what needs work.

GREENE: What has the record of the Trump administration been on issues like this so far, and, you know, how in general has the president done among Native American voters?

TRAHANT: Well, to put it in a bigger context, the Obama administration kind of reached new heights. They started a Tribal Nations Conference that happened every year and had direct consultation with the tribes in a way that was unprecedented. And so they set the bar really high. And the Trump administration has rolled back most of that and either not done the same sort of level of discourse with tribes or just ignored tribes. Where the Trump administration has put most of its energy is into the resource extraction issues and working with the tribes that have coal and oil, for example.

GREENE: What was that Elizabeth Warren moment like yesterday?

TRAHANT: It was pretty extraordinary. One of the things with the Elizabeth Warren story that I don't think - every time she appears before a Native group, she has made similar apologies. But more important, she gets an amazing reception. She was basically surrounded everywhere she went at the forum and received a standing ovation.

And so there is a group that really is concerned about her statements in the past. But among both tribal leaders and people that she's out and about in a broader sense, it's just the opposite. She was one of the - we had a quote from a young man who said, clearly, she was our favorite.

GREENE: All right. Mark Trahant, editor of the news website Indian Country Today, also emceeing the two-day Native American Presidential Forum that's taking place this week. Thanks so much.

So there’s that. And it was all of a month ago. Maybe you’re simply not aware of everything that is being said?


As for more recent news items:

We are NOT trying to convict Donald Trump in the Senate. That will never happen.

We must focus on trying to convict Donald Trump in the Court of Public Opinion.

Yep. Now that this is underway, Democrats and liberals have to remember who they’re trying to convince. They’re not trying to convince every single Democratic Senator and the 2 Independent Senators and at least 20 Republican Senators to vote to remove Trump. 20 Republican Senators are never going to vote to remove a sitting Republican President in this polarized atmosphere, especially not one the enjoys 80-90% approval among Republicans. (Not without some kind of major meltdown or completely whacked out behavior like trying to use the military or right-wing militias to attack or arrest his critics and accusers. So, low chance, although sadly not 100% out of the realm of possibility.)

What you’re trying to do is keep Democratic voters fired up and convincing the independent voters who have turned against Trump but aren’t in favor of impeachment that yes this is justified and why.

And when he escapes justice after however long this all takes, you want those people so hopping mad at the violation of their sense of justice and fairness that they’re dying to vote against him.

By the way, due to the effects that peers and neighbors have on informing people, I hope everyone who does believe that Trump is an incompetent criminal will make efforts to spread the word to the fencesitters and politically disengaged folks around them who usually only start paying attention to politics about a month before presidential elections. If you know these kind of people at work, school, among your friends, relatives, or neighbors, try to look for opportunities to get them thinking and on board.

I'm already seeing groups like Indivisible calling for the House to cancel next week's recess (its the Jewish high holidays) and vote immediately on articles of impeachment, without the extensive public hearings that might actually do some damage. I don't understand the logic of this at all, they're speaking as if this actually has a shot of removing him from office before next November? Doesn't a Republican majority senate prevent that?

Honestly I think that some people have wanted this so badly for so long that they think that their wishes are being actualized, or they’ve forgotten that not everyone is like them. In short, they’re dreaming. Unless something major happens, hopefully Democrats will disregard them and stick to making the best possible case they can to a skeptical public.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#290928: Sep 25th 2019 at 9:59:44 AM

RE missent email about Trump's conversation talking points: ... Is "recalling an email" even a thing to begin with? And do they seriously believe that the Democrats they accidentally sent the info would even humor them?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TitanJump Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Singularity
#290929: Sep 25th 2019 at 10:03:00 AM

[up]Nope. No recalls on emails.

(that said, this wasn't actually that surprising, this is the "Trump Administration" after all...)

That did bring a chuckle out of me though (following this whole story on live-updates since it started, this is the best news I've seen ever since I started following the news daily from the moment Trump got inaugurated. Now when this has begun, it is going fast...)

(This is the best day in my last three years so far.)

Oh, an update notice regarding the vote on whistle-blower resolution just came up...

Edited by TitanJump on Sep 25th 2019 at 7:04:51 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#290931: Sep 25th 2019 at 10:34:40 AM

As far as Epic Fail goes, this is one of the funnier ones.

TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#290932: Sep 25th 2019 at 10:45:03 AM

RE missent email about Trump's conversation talking points: ... Is "recalling an email" even a thing to begin with? And do they seriously believe that the Democrats they accidentally sent the info would even humor them?

Well, this is an administration obsessed with conspiracies that don't exist, that hypes deal and accomplishments that don't exist, that claims privileges and authorities that don't exist, all while ignoring laws and rules that do exist.

Are we really surprised that they're also trying to use technological features that don't exist?

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#290933: Sep 25th 2019 at 10:54:24 AM

For those that can't use Twitter, CBS has you covered:

''White House accidentally sends talking points on call summary to congressional Democrats 1:10 p.m.: The White House accidentally sent talking points defending Mr. Trump to congressional Democrats, and then tried to recall the email broadcasting these talking points once it was apparent Democrats had been included on the email.''

The document, which was obtained by CBS News and titled "What You Need to Know," included talking points asserting that "the transcript clearly shows there was no quid pro quo or anything else inappropriate." The document also said the "real scandal" is "that leaks about a second-hand account of the President's confidential telephone call with a foreign leader triggered a media frenzy of false accusations against the President." — Grace Segers

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#290934: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:13:56 AM

RE missent email about Trump's conversation talking points: ... Is "recalling an email" even a thing to begin with? And do they seriously believe that the Democrats they accidentally sent the info would even humor them?

Yes, recalling an email is a thing. Many email services have an option to recall an unread email. It replaces the email in the recipient's inbox with a recall notification, letting them know you've recalled it.

In the event that the email has already been opened, however, it can no longer be recalled. In that scenario, the email service places a recall notification in their inbox without removing the original. Which is what happened here.

So Democrats have both the email they were accidentally sent and the recall notice from whichever panicked official realized their mistake too late.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 25th 2019 at 12:15:30 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Bur from Flyover Country (Living Relic) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#290936: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:29:39 AM

That’s nothing new going by the WH’s turnover rate.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#290937: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:29:52 AM

Well, Trump is very good at firing people. On TV. In reality, he's a coward about it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#290938: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:30:59 AM

Apparently Trump is meeting the president of Ukraine right now.

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#290939: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:47:55 AM

[up] Source? I haven't heard about that.

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#290940: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:54:18 AM

It's on TV right now!

(Standard UN bilateral press conference, nothing sinister to see here)

Although there is some news in that Trump seems to genuinely believe that Hillary's missing emails are in Ukraine.

Which actually puts a brand new spin on the ongoing invasion of Ukraine by Russia - they are just honouring Trump's request to search for Hillary's emails.

Edited by singularityshot on Sep 25th 2019 at 12:04:32 PM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#290941: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:54:50 AM

Here, like [up] said

"You can reply to this Message!"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290942: Sep 25th 2019 at 11:59:04 AM

First I just wanted to reply to something from past pages before getting to more recent stuff:

I actually beat you to it wink

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#290943: Sep 25th 2019 at 12:00:35 PM

The acting National Intelligence Director has reportedly threatened to quit if Trump tries to make him stonewall Congress at his testimony like all his other cronies have done.

Edited by Parable on Sep 25th 2019 at 12:00:59 PM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#290944: Sep 25th 2019 at 1:12:53 PM

My only real concern with Warren is that IIRC her favorability numbers with black voters aren't particularly good, which is kind of a bad sign since that's a really important democrat voting bloc.

That being said most polls still have her beating Donald by a decent amount above the margin of error and she still has time to make gains, especially if a good number of Sanders' voters flock to her.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290945: Sep 25th 2019 at 1:16:31 PM

That's the kind of problem that she needs to solve to have any hope of winning the primary, so if Warren becomes the Democratic nominee it most likely won't be an issue anymore.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#290946: Sep 25th 2019 at 2:20:28 PM

Yeah, Democrats lose on a lot of delegates if they can't win those southern primaries, and the African-American vote is vital there. She could win without them if she was dominant in other regions, but that would be a weird combo.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290947: Sep 25th 2019 at 2:38:57 PM

I found a rather apropos article, Warren shows signs of broadening her base.

A new poll from NBC has found Warren having 13 percent support from black people, it's up from 5 percent of the previous NBC poll. A Economist-You Gov poll showed a similar-sized change.

It's an encouraging change and coupled with polls showing Warren surging in early primary states suggests that Warren's campaign will likely have much to be happy about.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#290948: Sep 25th 2019 at 2:41:59 PM

I think Warren only stands to gain as the race goes on. An earlier poll suggested that nearly half (around 46%) of voters who don't have her as their first choice are considering voting for her. If Warren can win a decent amount of black voters and people who are in Sanders' camp I can think she beat Biden for the nomination.

I don't know if she can do it, but her campaign has a lot of momentum to it and doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon, so that's a good sign.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290949: Sep 25th 2019 at 2:50:14 PM

Also there may be a snowball effect, a lot of black voters care a ton about electability, if Warren shows she can win (by saying winning early primaries) that could compound into support from voters whose biggest worry is that she can’t win stuff.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290950: Sep 25th 2019 at 3:00:44 PM

[up]Absolutely, and considering that there are some signs that she may be in the lead in Idaho that could be a natural place for the snowballing to start.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

Total posts: 417,856
Top