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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#290801: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:16:57 PM

A more cynical man would say that Pelosi is only starting impeachment now that it's closer to the election and can be dragged along for months to derail the Trump campaign.

Because it's bad publicity.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#290802: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:21:42 PM

Hopefully it doesn't backfire and helps creating 4 more years of Trump instead.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290803: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:28:57 PM

We're also seeing a veritable tide of Moderate Dems starting to support impeachment.

I have only one response:

This is going to be interesting.

A more cynical man would say that Pelosi is only starting impeachment now that it's closer to the election and can be dragged along for months to derail the Trump campaign.

Because it's bad publicity.

What's cynical about this? The entire point of impeachment is to hurt Trump's campaign.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#290804: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:33:39 PM

I think she's willing to move on it now as the Ukraine Scandal is both recent and VERY clear cut compared to the Obstruction charges/Muller Investigation, the later was always hard to pin directly on Trump there was always at least 1-2 people between Trump and the illegal acts. Here we have...basically the Watergate tapes in the form of a phone call with a another Leader stating "I'm with holding aid from your country until you dig up dirt on my rival and make it a BIG public investigation/scandal!"

This is much easier for the general public to understand and comprehend that you just don't DO that as President, and a clear cut abuse of power clearly aimed at a political rival to gain an edge in an election...very much like Watergate IIRC.

ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#290805: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:34:37 PM

[up][up]

The entire point of impeachment is to hurt Trump's campaign

Yeah... that kind of blatant political maneuvering could easily backfire, as the public at large might consider it a smear campaign rather than Trump actually having done something wrong. That's the exact mindset we want to avoid here.

And in interesting news, Trump says he's authorized the release of the full transcript of the conversation - whether he actually has remains to be seen, but it also calls into question whether the whistleblower will ever be allowed to be heard here.

Edited by ironballs16 on Sep 24th 2019 at 3:39:14 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#290806: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:38:17 PM

I'll admit I was against impeachment because as long as Republicans control the Senate it will never work but there are now so many legitimate grounds, yeah, let's do it and make the Republicans support an obviously criminal President.

Trump delenda est
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290807: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:50:09 PM

Yeah... that kind of blatant political maneuvering could easily backfire, as the public at large might consider it a smear campaign rather than Trump actually having done something wrong. That's the exact mindset we want to avoid here.

I don't see anything blatant about it, she can quite plausibly (and honestly) say that they decided to pursue impeachment because Trump's blatant corrupt vis a vis Ukraine forced their hands. I don't buy the idea that it could easily backfire, Trump is actually guilty after all, it's not like they're launching impeachment over something minor.

And no, that's not a mindset that should be avoided. If impeachment isn't meant to convince the American people to vote against Trump and Republicans in-general then it's pointless.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#290808: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:51:43 PM

Let's...let's not get into the pros and cons of impeachment. Especially as the mods have told us repeatedly not to.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290809: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:55:23 PM

I mean, impeachment is literally happening. So it's less we're talking about the pros/cons and more that we're discussing specific details about the upcoming impeachment.

Though obviously, if the mods want us to stop talking about it then we will. But considering that impeachment is no longer theoretical I think the situation has changed enough for the moratorium to be rescinded.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 24th 2019 at 12:59:54 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#290810: Sep 24th 2019 at 12:58:51 PM

The posts on this page have been a mix of information and "it could do this" and "I think...".

Please keep to the former as much as possible. The concern about circular arguments and inflamed tempers still stands.

Edited by nombretomado on Sep 24th 2019 at 1:00:17 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290811: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:01:14 PM

Ah, I see.

Fair enough then.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Imca (Veteran)
#290812: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:01:31 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#290813: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:02:23 PM

Roger roger.

Pelosi's meeting should be beginning any minute now. Expect an official announcement within an hour.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290814: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:06:59 PM

Depends, if the tapes come out and are s bad as they seem the media may go with “Republicans proclaim Trump above the law and call for foreign interference so they can win election” instead of “Trump found innocent, Democrats in chaos after failed coup”.

Headline 1 could well push a massive blue wave, headline 2 fucks the democrats big and could secure Trump reelection.

So I guess it’s up to CNN, may god have mercy on us all...

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#290815: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:08:28 PM

~Imca, opining that pursuing impeachment hands Trump the 2020 election falls under pros v. cons. Please don't. I just confirmed we're still limiting this talk.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#290816: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:10:38 PM

So did they wear her down or was he refusal always just biding time?

Neither. What happened is that something has changed, and that something is the extremely public act of Trump trying to convince Ukraine to sabotage a political opponent in order to sway the upcoming 2020 election.

When it was Russia, the defense was, "You can't prove Trump knowingly and deliberately colluded. He could just be stupid. You don't know."

When it was obstruction of justice, the defense was, "Trump can't obstruct justice into a fake political investigation led by departments that report to Trump. He absolutely has the right to just veto the whole thing any time he likes. He's the President."

When it was racism and bigotry, the defense was, "Trump isn't racist. He's making decisions that his voters elected him to make, which are entirely within his power as President. Just because you disagree with his choices doesn't mean he doesn't mean he's not allowed to make them."

When it was sympathizing with foreign dictators, the defense was, "Trump's making allies and building relationships with foreign powers. Why is that a bad thing?"

But now it's Trump directly pressuring a foreign country to falsify evidence that would support his attacks against a former Vice President of the United States. Trump's been caught red-handed on this one. That's really hard to defend against.

Rest assured, Fox and the Right will still undoubtedly try their damnedest to justify it. And, end of the day, Mitch's Senate will not impeach. But the country is furious about this totally indefensible Ukraine thing and it's put a booster shot in the arm of the pro-impeachment side, so Pelosi doesn't really have much of a choice anymore.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 24th 2019 at 2:12:21 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290817: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:14:40 PM

On a side note, the rally around the flag effect for Biden may well get him the nomination.

A big thing is gonna be the tapes, Congress are gonna get their hands on them, I suspect that the media will to.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#290818: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:15:00 PM

Leave it to Trump to provide such a blatant smoking gun, that is not directly related to any ongoing scandals.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#290819: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:15:39 PM

Sheesh. As much as I support this move I don’t want biden to win the nomination.

ShadowWingLG Since: Dec, 2013
#290820: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:24:42 PM

[up][up][up] What Tobias said, everything else has been with a good buffer between Trump and the acts or could be spun in a way that would not severely harm Trump long term

Yup IIRC Pelosi's statements about Impeachment were 1) the Republicans finally have ENOUGH as well and join in, or 2) A HUGE Smoking Gun/Totally Blatant Completely Beyond the Pale Illegal Act done directly by Trump that cannot be ignored comes up.

We got Number 2.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#290821: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:27:06 PM

On a side note, the rally around the flag effect for Biden may well get him the nomination.
I had a similar thought, myself. For better or worse this could be what clinches it for Biden unless there actually is dirt on the Ukraine side and it comes out during asll this.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#290822: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:29:36 PM

Worth repeating that Trump has never offered any evidence Biden or his son did anything wrong in Ukraine.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#290823: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:39:08 PM

Biden went after Kiev for not cracking down on corruption as VP, while his son was working for a major energy firm in the country. There is zero evidence that either of them engaged in any such corruption themselves, and while its possible (in the loosest sense) Hunter was engaged in illicit dealings, Trump was just looking for dirt in the worst possible.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#290824: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:39:10 PM

[up][up] Which is really part for the course with that guy.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:39:20 AM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#290825: Sep 24th 2019 at 1:40:25 PM

> Sheesh. As much as I support this move I don’t want biden to win the nomination.

-the Monkey's paw uncurls-

have a listen and have a link to my discord server

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