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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#290751: Sep 23rd 2019 at 11:53:42 AM

I will said biden and sander is a think of scale because Sander those share Biden tendecy to put is feet so much in is mouth that he can brush is teeth with it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#290752: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:00:49 PM

I honestly have no idea what you were just trying to say, no offense.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#290753: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:03:30 PM

[up]Sanders and Biden share the same open mouth insert foot tendecies and double down when they get call out, but Biden gaffes are bigger than sanders in general.

in short is not much a diference in nature but in scale of their mistakes

better?

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290754: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:04:30 PM

Gabbard is worse, she’s pro Assad.

Oh and I did some digging, if one wants a VP pick from outside the primary, Martin Heinrich might be a good choice, he’s a senator from New Mexico (not a swing state but not deep blue, also the Democratic Governor would appoint a replacement), he’s pretty progressive but with a bit of bi-partisan appeal (he knows guns properly and did a joint trip with Republican Jeff Flake a while back), he’s young and he’d got the credence of being a senator.

He’s kinda bland, but I’m not convinced that that’s a bad thing for a VP pick.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 23rd 2019 at 7:09:55 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290755: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:06:07 PM

Especially as Sanders wants to keep the filibuster, that kinda makes his agenda dead on arrival.

Yeah, that alone makes Warren more deserving of the title of Political Revolutionary. At least she's actually willing to burn down obstacles to progress.

Gabbard is worse, she’s pro Assad.

Modi too.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#290756: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:15:04 PM

The last time she was asked she at least clarified that she merely views him in the same vein as Saddam and that she opposes further interventionist regime changes rather than supporting Assad

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/01/politics/tulsi-gabbard-assad-dictator-cnntv/index.html

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290757: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:19:31 PM

Considering how much she has played apologist for him I think one would be highly credulous to take any word from her at face value.

And even if she's backed away from her Assad apologia her long history of support for Modi remains.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#290758: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:30:58 PM

[up][up] This is the thing, Assad is a man that uses WMD continuously. That USA don't takes a stance against that...it's just lame. Anti Interventionist isolationalism in practique becomes "I'm fine with all crimes as long USA isn't involved"

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:31:46 PM

Watch me destroying my country
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290759: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:33:00 PM

That's exactly what it means when we're talking about racists like the alt-right or Gabbard.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#290760: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:38:07 PM

Trump's worst damage in international policy isn't that he is a warmonger that delights on causing suffering in the Middle East. It's because he is trying his best to create a Wall between USA and the Rest of the World, screw everything else, even our own allies.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:39:28 PM

Watch me destroying my country
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#290761: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:47:14 PM

He does create plenty of suffering in the Middle East, by providing our "ally" Saudi Arabia with more weapons for their genocide in Yemen.

Or by further supporting Netanyahu.

I'd gladly say no to further involvement like that.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 23rd 2019 at 9:48:17 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#290762: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:53:30 PM

Gabbard is a host of toxic elements: links to extremists around the world, Assad apologist, links to Russia, racism, homophobia (cut her teeth in politics fighting marriage equality, and a lot of her advisors signed on during said campaigns), isolationism, and she's too close to the GOP for comfort.

Any single one of those is bad for a potential nominee, but all of those should be more than disqualifying, it should have the DNC and local activists out for her job. You want to get rid of regressive Democrats? She's a wonderful start, and her seat/state is among the bluest in the Union, so there's minimal risk of GOP gains.

In bad Gabbard related news though, she only needs one more decent (2% nationally or in an early state, in a credible poll) poll to make the next debate: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-latest-iowa-poll-is-good-news-for-elizabeth-warren-and-tulsi-gabbard/

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#290763: Sep 23rd 2019 at 12:54:34 PM

[up][up]Those things aren't even close to anything resembling Millitary intervention. A isolationist USA easily can continue doing that.

Trump's essentially is breaking all the alliances that keep the current USA-EU global hegemony in place, something that would lead to authoritarian countries deliberately ignoring Human Rights ("Anyway, nobody cares, if USA doesn't knock, I'm safe). That's without counting Chinese influences.

Heck, it's also possible that...maybe you can stop suplying the Saudis and ignoring Netarhayu without becoming a Isolationist that cuddles with Dictators who blame USA for everything

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:56:48 PM

Watch me destroying my country
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#290764: Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:19:26 PM

Rationalinsanity: it sound she is pretty much a DINO and crypto GOP a this point.

and kazuya is right, trump pretty much belive that america is great because it just sort of it, therefore all the aliance are waste of time, he think america just need to be america and be awsome on is own and the alies will come to him because he is so awsome.

Pretty much peak narcisim and entitilement here.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#290765: Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:25:03 PM

[up]She's too progressive on certain issues to ever fit in with the GOP, but she's not like the Blue Dogs or other conservative Democratic factions either.

She's just a powerful local politician who uses said power to get elected despite her shit views. One who hopefully never goes any higher.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#290766: Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:30:09 PM

Aye, Gabbard is closer to Democrats policy-wise than Republicans.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290767: Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:30:15 PM

Rationalinsanity: it sound she is pretty much a DINO and crypto GOP a this point.

That's exactly what she is.

She's too progressive on certain issues to ever fit in with the GOP, but she's not like the Blue Dogs or other conservative Democratic factions either.

Eh, I don't know. She has a very centrist voting record in a safe blue state, I would not be surprised if she would be significantly more right-wing if given the opportunity. Also, she's y'know a fan of the far-right Modi.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:32:35 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#290768: Sep 23rd 2019 at 2:57:19 PM

It's also possible to stand up to regimes without the use of the military. I really don't like this Pro-Intervention rhetorics that a contingent around here is spouting. Haven't enough people lost their lives in all these wars during the last years?

And I hate to be that guy, but would YOU be willing to serve abroad too? I mean, we can hardly criticize certain right-wing pundits and politicians for being chicken hawks without following through in that regard.

Edited by Forenperser on Sep 23rd 2019 at 11:58:29 AM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290769: Sep 23rd 2019 at 3:01:01 PM

It's also possible to stand up to regimes without the use of the military. I really don't like this Pro-Intervention rhetorics that a contingent around here is spouting. Haven't enough people lost their lives in all these wars during the last years?

And I hate to be that guy, but would YOU be willing to serve abroad too? I mean, we can hardly criticize certain right-wing pundits and politicians for being chicken hawks without following through in that regard.

It's interesting, I haven't seen any such "pro-intervention" rhetoric. Is it because we're daring to criticize an Islamophobe piece of trash?

And no, that's a facile question. We have a volunteer military, even the most ardent civilian hawk (i.e none of us) doesn't have any obligation to join the military.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 3:01:29 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290770: Sep 23rd 2019 at 3:02:38 PM

I’m going to not take the personal attack bait and point out that Gabbard isn’t pro-sanctioning Assad, she strait up thinks he’s an okay guy and should be left to do what he wants.

I don’t agree with pacifism but I respect it a hell of a lot more than outright pro-dictator rhetoric.

Edit: Oh and I should point out that not intervening doesn’t mean people don’t loose their lives, it means that Western people don’t loose their lives, Western people aren’t the only ones whose lives matter.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 23rd 2019 at 10:06:55 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#290771: Sep 23rd 2019 at 3:10:45 PM

I’d like to point out that there’s something of a difference between accepting that a military intervention is sometimes necessary and being “pro intervention”. That’s a bit of a snarl term.

They should have sent a poet.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#290772: Sep 23rd 2019 at 3:16:24 PM

@Archon: Honestly, I would accept the term of "Pro-Intervention", Westerners lose minimal lives in the registered Intervention wars. The West's new isolationalism is frankly more to.fear of losing reputation or some type of "Western Guilt" than actual analysis.

@Foreign: And more people lose their wars without needing a war. Heck, in the case of Syria, there's already a war, a big one that has killed thousands and caused a massive refugee crisis.

I mean, we can hardly criticize certain right-wing pundits and politicians for being chicken hawks without following through in that regard.

That argument falls as soon a single soldier says "Yes".

Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:18:32 AM

Watch me destroying my country
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#290773: Sep 23rd 2019 at 4:44:55 PM

The US's slide towards isolationism (in regards to Europe and the Middle East) and towards confrontation with China honestly has very little to do with the current occupant of the White House, or even congress. If anything it's an indicator of


1. the fact that the shale revolution has made the US a net producer of oil and thus no longer vulnerable to energy embargoes, making control over the flow of global energy supplies a luxury rather than a strategic imperative.


2. Backlash against imperial overreach by the US in the post cold wars decades, both internationally and domestically; building soft power is hard, losing it is easy.


3. Growing global development eroding the relative supremacy of the US; it's getting harder and harder for the US (or the west in general) to just steamroll over large portions of the world.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290774: Sep 23rd 2019 at 4:54:00 PM

The US's slide towards isolationism (in regards to Europe and the Middle East) and towards confrontation with China honestly has very little to do with the current occupant of the White House, or even congress. If anything it's an indicator of

The US's slide towards isolationism doesn't exist, the only major difference between Trump's foreign policy and Obama's is less diplomacy and more brinksmanship. I shouldn't have to say that, that's neither isolationism nor disconnected to the current inhabitant of the White House.

Yes, Trump has shown little respect for our allies or international institutions, but he's also maintained our foreign deployments and upped drone strikes. But that is not a form of isolationism, just a particularly stupid form of nationalistic interventionism.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 4:56:38 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
CaptainCapsase from Orbiting Sagittarius A* Since: Jan, 2015
#290775: Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:14:09 PM

Isolationism doesn't mean pacifism. Falling back on hard power and shunning soft power is actually completely consistent with this narrative of US retreat, the prediction there being that once that hard power refuses to budge things the US will "take its ball and go home."


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