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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#290451: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:27:41 PM

Oh my, considering that IIRC Arizona's Senate seat will also be crucial to taking the Senate that's excellent news.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290452: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:31:02 PM

Well, I disagree with people and articles pronouncing the American religious right as responsible for everyone's atheism,

Cool, when someone spots an article asserting such a thing I’ll be right there with you, but as no such article has been posted or argument made you tangent just seems out of place.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#290453: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:37:16 PM

Bluntly, it's a bit more complicated than that re: Fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism attempts to control the discourse and set the stage of what qualifies as No True Scotsman. Richard Dawkins stated that he was always irritated with religious people who stated that they could take things metaphorically or pick and choose elements of their religion. For him, you had to choose either everything or nothing—which is a fundamentalist talking point.

Religion is a subject that a lot of people unwittingly are having a war over in the nature of definition. Is a person who venerates a Christian theology based around a historical non-divine Jesus not a Christian? What about an impersonal non-sentient God? What about reviewing human consciousness as divine or Universal Cosmic Force? Immortality without a deity? The above nonsense and truths being examples of, "Belief about the universe is complex."

Religious fundamnetalists attempt to make it very simple and that means if it's an either or choice that it is actually very important to people. A person who might believe in a God that is reconciliable with science (whether you believe that's possible or not) will reject one if believed that's impossible.

There are times when it’s a good thing to say “not all X”, but it comes down to the audience. Telling other X that they’re not representative of everyone and are in fact the asshole exception is good, “not all X” is bad when it’s used to try and cover for asshole X and throw at people being victimised by X.

You shout not all Christians at the religious right, not at the people the religious right are trying to kill.

I take the view that the No True Scotsman fallacy is damaging to religion and philosophy as a whole.

You should never say X is not part of your group even if they're repellant.

You should say they're a BAD part of your group. It causes less confusion and makes the issue of redeeming them or stopping them a priority.

It's another thing I feel regarding anarchists.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 18th 2019 at 5:39:35 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#290454: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:39:32 PM

I'm not surprised that my state is competitive in 2020, considering we were one of the only states in 2018 to flip a Senate seat Democrat.

nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#290455: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:42:56 PM

Someone very astutely noted this conversation may be better suited for a religion thread.

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#290456: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:50:53 PM

(Since this isn't related to religion)

It's another thing I feel regarding anarchists.

You feel anarchists engage in No True Scotsman a lot? Can you give an example of that?

(Please don't say 'Libertarians', please please please)

Angry gets shit done.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#290457: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:56:58 PM

I think every ideology eventually engages in No True Scotsman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issues_in_anarchism

And Libertarian aren't anarchists but I believe they're anarchist influenced and show how the ideology can be bent and warped.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#290458: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:58:23 PM

Pennsylvania state senator Mike Folmer "has been a member of the state Senate since 2007 and was reelected to a fourth term last year. He is considered one of the more conservative members of the Legislature. Last year, he opposed a bill that would have made it easier for survivors of child sex abuse to sue their perpetrators by extending the statute of limitations. Folmer opposed the effort to allow victims to sue predators decades after alleged abuse on constitutional grounds."

If you're wondering why I'm mentioning this guy, guess who just got arrested for having child porn?

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#290459: Sep 18th 2019 at 5:59:19 PM

It should be noted that most libertarians don't flat-out want to abolish the government. Anarcho-capitalists are a radical sub-group.

I do think it's essentially accurate to call anarcho-capitalists anarchists. However, I would argue they're a very different type of anarchist.

To use a metaphor, it's a bit like the tendency to compare Stalinism to Fascism, because they're both totalitarian movements. That's correct, but, that does not necessarily make them all that identical.

Another metaphor I'd make is convergent evolution. Birds and bats are both flying animals, but they're very much not related to each other.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Sep 18th 2019 at 6:02:14 AM

Leviticus 19:34
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#290460: Sep 18th 2019 at 6:04:06 PM

[up][up]Oh, of course he did.

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#290461: Sep 18th 2019 at 6:07:22 PM

I Will said the left suffer More of not true scottman than the right, mostly because they see each other as their own, even if they share goals.

Which i Guess why the right hardly does something with white supremacy: they do what they do and the other does what they does.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#290462: Sep 18th 2019 at 6:31:09 PM

And Libertarian aren't anarchists but I believe they're anarchist influenced and show how the ideology can be bent and warped.

I'm going to point to what Protagonist said and say that what the US calls Libertarians are a convergent evolution type deal.

WTUSC Libertarians aren't 'warped Anarchists', since Anarchism is a form of collectivism that views (unjust) hierarchy as the root of all bad things in society and equal distribution of power and authority (usually in combination with shared ownership of resources and society) as the solution.

WTUSC Libertarians, meanwhile, are what you get when you take individualism and 'personal liberty' to such extremes that you refuse to recognise any kind of authority you didn't consent to.

Both are anti-authoritarian, but on opposite ends of the individualism-collectivism spectrum. You could theoretically claim Horseshoe Theory and say that that makes them almost the same, but then you'd have to ignore not just the individualism-collectivism angle, but also the common differences in views on economic and social issues outside of that dichotomy.

Angry gets shit done.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#290463: Sep 18th 2019 at 6:48:13 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/09/18/day-972/

    Day 972: Dastardly 
1/ Secretary of State Mike Pompeo accused Iran of having carried out an "act of war" with strikes on oil facilities in Saudi Arabia. Trump, however, pushed back against American military response in the Middle East, saying wars are "very easy to start," but that "there are many options. There's the ultimate option and there are options a lot less than that." U.S. military leaders have, however, presented Trump with a range of options for a retaliatory strike against Iran, including a cyber attack or a strike on Iranian oil facilities. Another option includes a strike by Saudi Arabia, with the U.S. providing intelligence, targeting information, and surveillance capabilities, but the U.S. refraining from actually firing any weapons. Other options include strikes on missile launch sites, bases, or other assets of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. There are currently no indications that any U.S. military action is imminent. Pompeo was scheduled to meet with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to discuss the attack and "coordinate efforts to counter Iranian aggression in the region." (New York Times / CNN / NBC News / NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pompeo-heads-saudi-arabia-middle-east-tensions-grow-n1055206

2/ Trump directed Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin "to substantially increase" U.S. sanctions on Iran. Trump's comment came after Iranian news agencies reported that Iran had warned the U.S. that it would retaliate against any attacks. Trump later told reporters that his administration will "be adding some very significant sanctions" on Iran within the next two days and that he's got time to devise a "dastardly" response to the attacks on Saudi oil facilities. (Washington Post / Politico / NBC News / Bloomberg)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-told-mnuchin-substantially-increase-sanctions-iran-n1055781

3/ The White House fired the Department of Homeland Security's general counsel. John Mitnick will be replaced by Joe Maher, principal deputy general counsel. Mitnick's job was to push back against policies that could put Homeland Security in a legally dubious position, such as the time the White House proposed releasing migrants into sanctuary cities to send a message to Democrats who opposed his immigration agenda. Mitnick was fired in part due to his opposition to Stephen Miller and his immigration policies. (New York Times / CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/18/politics/john-mitnick-homeland-security-general-counsel-fired/

Who The Fuck Has Left The Trump Administration. A timeline of all the departures so far… (WTF Just Happened Today Community Forum)

https://talk.whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/t/who-the-fuck-has-left-the-trump-administration/908

4/ The acting director of national intelligence refused testify before Congress or hand over a whistleblower complaint to lawmakers. The complaint was submitted on Aug. 12 by a member of the intelligence community involving conduct by someone "outside the intelligence community" who does not involve intelligence activity under the supervision of Joseph Maguire, the acting director of national intelligence. Maguire had told Adam Schiff, the House Intelligence Committee chairman, that he would not provide the complaint "because he is being instructed not to" by "a higher authority" who is "above" the cabinet-level position of the director of national intelligence. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/us/politics/dni-whistleblower-complaint.html

📌 Day 970: The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee accused the acting director of national intelligence of withholding a whistleblower complaint in order to protect a "higher authority" official. Adam Schiff said Joseph Maguire, the acting DNI, consulted the Justice Department about the whistleblower complaint prior to his decision to withhold the complaint – a departure from standard practice. Schiff added that the Committee "can only conclude, based on this remarkable confluence of factors, that the serious misconduct at issue involves the President of the United States and/or other senior White House or Administration officials." (Business Insider / CBS News)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/adam-schiff-says-dni-cited-higher-authority-in-refusal-to-turn-over-whistleblower-complaint/

5/ Trump picked the State Department's top hostage negotiator to be his fourth national security advisor. Robert C. O'Brien will replace John Bolton and has no known experience managing an organization the size of the National Security Council. By Trump's recounting, O'Brien won hum over in part by praising him in the job interview and in tweets. Trump also dispatched O'Brien to help free rapper A$AP Rocky from Swedish prison earlier this year. (New York Times / CNN / Politico / Bloomberg / Washington Post / CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/18/trump-names-state-dept-official-robert-obrien-as-national-security-advisor-replacing-john-bolton.html

6/ The Federal Reserve cut interest rates by a quarter percentage point – the second time since July. Officials also left the door open for another rate cut this year if the economy continues to weaken. Major U.S. stock exchanges dropped after the decision was announced. Fed Chairman Jerome Powell has been publicly pressured by Trump to reduce rates to "ZERO or less." The Federal Open Market Committee again cited "the implications of global developments for the economic outlook as well as muted inflation pressures" as the primary rationale for the cut. (Wall Street Journal / Bloomberg / NBC News / CNN / CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/18/fed-decision-interest-rates-cut.html

7/ Trump criticized Powell and the Fed for having "no 'guts,'" saying they "Fail[ed] Again." Trump has previously called the Fed policymakers "boneheads" for not lower rates to help boost economic growth. At one point he asked whether Fed Chair Jerome Powell or China's president was "our bigger enemy." (Bloomberg)

8/ The military has spent nearly $200,000 at Trump's Turberry golf resort in Scotland since 2017. The spending paid for the equivalent of hundreds of nights of rooms over approximately three dozen separate stays since August 2017. The Air Force also confirmed last week that its crews had stayed up to 40 times at Trump's property since 2015. (Politico)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-18/trump-tweets-fed-powell-fail-again-after-25-point-rate-cut

📌 Day 963: An Air National Guard crew stayed at Trump's Turnberry golf resort in Scotland in March. The Air Force plane stopped at a nearby airport to refuel both en route to the Middle East and back, with the crew staying at the resort, which lost $4.5 million in 2017, but revenue went up $3 million in 2018. The Air Force confirmed that crew members stayed at Turnberry, but said "it did not appear" that they stayed at the hotel on the way back. There are more than two dozen hotels, guesthouses and inns a few miles from the Prestwick airport with most of them much less expensive than the $380/night advertised rate at Trump Turnberry. The fuel would have also been cheaper if purchased at a U.S. military base. (Politico / New York Times)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/06/air-force-trump-scottish-retreat-1484337

📌 Day 967: The Air Force sent crews to Trump's Turnberry resort in Scotland on 40 different occasions since 2015. That number is much higher than previously known, and it represents the preliminary results of an Air Force review launched last week after news reports about the Air Force sending crews to Trump's properties. The preliminary tally does not indicate how many of the stays at Trump properties occurred since Trump became president, but the Air Force significantly increased the number of stops in Scotland under Trump after signing a deal with the Prestwick Airport at the end of the Obama administration. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/air-force-trump-scottish-resort-1493624

📌 Day 971: Some Air Force crews that stayed at Trump's Turnberry resort in Scotland stayed for multiple nights and were given gifts during their stays. The resort gave high-ranking officers "Pride Pins," which are reserved for VIP members. Low-ranking airmen received other gifts and welcome packages, including Scottish shortbread and other treats. Instead of being restricted to single-night refueling stops, Air Force crews sometimes stayed for multiple nights while the weather cleared up or their planes were repaired. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/17/trump-scotland-turnberry-1499298

poll/ 56% of Democratic primary voters say they prefer a candidate who proposes "larger scale policies that cost more and might be harder to pass into law, but could bring major change" on issues like climate change, health care and economic opportunity. (NBC News / Wall Street Journal / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/17/nbc-wsj-poll-democratic-primary-1500958

    Notables 
The Trump administration claimed that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is unconstitutional because Congress limited presidential power to remove the agency's director before their five-year term expires. The CFPB was given stronger enforcement powers over the financial industry to help prevent another economic meltdown like the mortgage-lending crisis that began in 2007. Two federal appeals courts have also upheld the CFPB's structure, which is intended to insulate the director from political interference. (Wall Street Journal)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-administration-looks-to-supreme-court-to-rein-in-consumer-finance-agency-11568771467

The Trump administration proposed a new rule that would allow pork slaughterhouses to use fewer line inspectors from the Department of Agriculture and to run slaughter lines without any speed limit. The rule allows factory workers, instead of USDA inspectors, to remove unsuitable carcasses and trim defects in plants that are subject to the new inspection system. USDA inspectors will still examine the carcasses, but they will be stationed farther down the lines. The new rule is intended to modernize the inspection system, but consumer advocates say it will make food less safe and increase the risks to workers. (NBC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-administration-allows-pork-slaughterhouses-have-fewer-usda-inspectors-n1055451

House Joint Economic Committee estimated that gun violence costs the U.S. $229 billion a year, according to a new report using data from the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence and the Centers for Disease Control. Lost income, employer costs, police and criminal justice responses, and health care treatment account for the biggest costs to the economy. (CNBC)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/18/gun-violence-costs-the-us-229-billion-annually-report.html

Attorney General William Barr is sharing a proposal on expanding background checks with senators. Lawmakers, however, don't know where Trump stands on potential new firearms restrictions. (Bloomberg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-18/trump-administration-circulating-gun-background-checks-proposal

Mike Pence canceled a trip to meet with the leader of the Solomon Islands after the island government cut ties with Taiwan and switched its allegiance to China. The meeting was supposed to be an opportunity for the U.S. to discuss development partnerships with the Solomon Islands, and it was supposed to take place on the sidelines of or shortly after the upcoming U.N. General Assembly meeting. The Solomon Islands is the sixth country to switch its allegiance from Taiwan to China since 2016. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-taiwan-diplomacy-pence-exclusive-idUSKBN1W22WK

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#290464: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:47:43 PM

I'm not surprised that my state is competitive in 2020, considering we were one of the only states in 2018 to flip a Senate seat Democrat.

Mhm. There's nothing surprising to me about a state that almost went blue in 2016 and did go blue in 2018 being a potential battleground in 2020. Nor is there anything surprising to me about a border state not having a particularly good opinion of Trump.

(Which, as a side note, has always struck me as one of the more ridiculous aspects of his insistence on The Wall, from a purely tactical standpoint. It seems taylor-made to turn Texas against him, and there's no way a Republican is gonna win without the presidency without Texas.)

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#290465: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:51:25 PM

Trump cannot back out on the wall without alienating his base, even if he were inclined to give up on it (he's not — he's very much a genuine xenophobe except when it comes to hiring cheap workers for his own properties).

Edited by M84 on Sep 18th 2019 at 10:51:42 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#290466: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:02:40 PM

And the Wall is the ultimate monument to his ego, which he treasures even more than his racism.

Also graft.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#290467: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:04:12 PM

[up][up]Ehh. I could be convinced that Trump believes it would alienate his base, but I haven't seen any evidence that there's anything he could do that would actually alienate his base.

I would argue that the far more likely answer is that his xenophobia and desire to construct some grand monument to his reign are significantly stronger than his instincts for political tactics.

Edited by Gilphon on Sep 18th 2019 at 11:04:34 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#290468: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:07:58 PM

[up]Nothing that would actually convince most of them to vote D, that's true. But some might be put off and just stay at home on voting day if he gives up on the wall.

But it's true that his motivation for the wall is almost certainly rooted in his own ego.

Edited by M84 on Sep 18th 2019 at 11:10:37 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#290469: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:09:48 PM

This was from awhile ago, so maybe take it with a grain of salt, but I remember someone posting stuff about how the vast majority of Trump voters are there specifically for him, and honestly don't care what he supports - if he says it, they'll back him.

Which is apparently how Republicans just work, in general, but it's beefed up even more under him.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#290470: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:25:01 PM

I imagine the majority of his hardcore base would stick with him even if he did abandon the wall. His personality cult is terrifying. But a slim minority who are really all in on the xenophobia might not.

Edited by M84 on Sep 18th 2019 at 11:25:19 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#290471: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:31:00 PM

There's nothing surprising to me about a state that almost went blue in 2016 and did go blue in 2018 being a potential battleground in 2020.

Yeah, it might be a little pre-emptive to say, but I think Arizona is straight-up a purple state now, which isn't actually that surprising if you've been paying attention to Arizona's changing political climate over the last decade or so.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#290472: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:38:41 PM

I would argue that the far more likely answer is that his xenophobia and desire to construct some grand monument to his reign are significantly stronger than his instincts for political tactics.
And he does consider it a reign. I recall a story a while back where he referred to Obama's term as a "reign".

BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#290473: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:22:46 PM

I thought that, with Texas being a red state, it would be generally for 45's wall.

Do not obey in advance.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#290474: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:28:55 PM

Being on the border, they probably care more that he'd be seizing their land to build it.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#290475: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:30:55 PM

NIMBY essentially.

Disgusted, but not surprised

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