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GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#290326: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:40:37 AM

Okay. And if the Dems have that much of a problem with it, they won't vote him in. He won't get those resources until and if the Dems choose him as their candidate. If he ends up getting those resources, it'll be because the Dems want to back him with those resources.

So what's the problem?

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#290327: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:42:58 AM

It comes off as hypocritical and self-serving. Criticizing a party you’re not part of constantly, then running under its banner and demanding all its resources, and when you lose then accusing the whole party of being corrupt and the election of being rigged doesn’t look too good.

It makes him look like he’ll pretty much say and do anything to win, on top of being a poor loser, which are not actually qualities I’d want in a president.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 18th 2019 at 7:44:29 AM

They should have sent a poet.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#290328: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:44:57 AM

The problem is that a clear and obvious opportunist is standing in our midst trying to hawk snake oil to the same people he smugly condescends to in the first place.

Remember that time when a Republican abruptly switched parties to run for the Democratic nomination, won the governorship on our dime, and then immediately switched parties back to being a Republican governor? We clearly need higher standards about who we back for office. Actually being a Democrat is not a high bar to meet.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#290329: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:49:28 AM

I swear, the more I learn about the US political system, the asinine it looks.

Being the member of a party just means saying you are and that's all there is to it? How does that makes a lick of sense?

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#290330: Sep 18th 2019 at 7:51:53 AM

You have to register and so on, but I don't think it's a high bar at all.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Wryte Since: Jul, 2010
#290331: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:04:00 AM

Imagine political parties are bands.

Bernie Sanders is a solo act who plays largely to the same audience as the Democrats, and likes to ride on their bus whenever they go on tour, but isn't actually part of their band. However, he keeps trying to become their frontman, despite routinely saying in interviews that the Democrats are sell outs, man, and he's the only one who's still about the music (even though he's just been playing the same set list and hasn't written a new song in decades.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#290332: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:11:20 AM

Or to stick to the tribe metaphor: Imagine some guy who keeps flinging poo at you and your fellow tribe members, but still expects you to make him head honcho and give him some of your meat, only to run off into the wilderness and resume flinging poo at you if he doesn't get what he wants.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 18th 2019 at 5:13:34 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#290333: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:14:02 AM

For me, the bigger issue is that there's not much reason reason to run as an independent in the US political system. Like, it's a perfectly understandable choice in countries with a strong party whip system like Ireland, but the Democrats and Republicans are both big-tent parties without much ability to force party loyalty, which means that going independent is really just a sign that you don't like working with others. Not particularly something you want in a politician

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#290334: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:19:21 AM

[up] Well yeah, as I said earlier, I get the logic behind why Sanders is running on the Democratic ticket - because again, the only independent to ever be president was Washington and he didn't really have any competition.

The issue people have with Sanders is that be's being a dick about it.

Even if he somehow won as an independent, he'd still have to deal with parliamentary chambes that aren't him - that's the main reason why political parties exist.

Politics is not a one-man show. You need some people to back you up.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Sep 18th 2019 at 5:22:11 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#290335: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:24:31 AM

@Kaos You keep arguing that it's pointless to criticize Bernie because if he's voted in, that means he's the most popular, and if he's not, that means he wasn't, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the topic at hand. No-one except you is talking about votes, people are just talking about Bernie's words and actions, how votes affect the outcome is not a relevant part of this discussion.

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#290336: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:31:14 AM

[up] All I'm getting from that is "people have unfavourable opinions of him and his views" which to me isn't very relevant to his standing as a Democratic nominee.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#290337: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:40:08 AM

I'd think it would be relevant, given most of the people here are Democratic voters with a role in deciding which nominee becomes the actual candidate.

Edited by sgamer82 on Sep 18th 2019 at 9:40:19 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#290338: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:49:43 AM

Also he isn't the nominee yet - that's what the primaries are supposed to determine.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#290339: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:50:55 AM

He's a nominee to be the Democratic Candidate. Or Candidate to be Democratic Nominee, whichever.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Sep 18th 2019 at 4:52:16 PM

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#290340: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:52:29 AM

He's running to be the Democratic Nominee. "Nominee" means he's been nominated. He hasn't been nominated by anyone yet. Getting nominated is what he's competing for right now.

That said, this is entirely a semantic dispute.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#290341: Sep 18th 2019 at 8:59:55 AM

That's a feature in the parliamentary system they did not bring over (Borris booted a load of people out the Conservative Party fairly recently),probably to stop people from being unfairly expelled the party

Fun fact: Most of the Framers were against political parties as a thing at all. Our party system kind of formed in bits, pieces and implosions.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#290342: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:12:00 AM

I had a feeling I was screwing up the terminology a bit. My bad.

That said, it's occurred to me that Sanders really is a Democrat in Name Only. Not in the sense of a conservative member of a progressive party, since he's at least as, if not more, progressive than most of the Democrats, but in the sense of Jess only really a member on paper.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#290343: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:22:31 AM

So if Sanders becomes the president he can claim to be the first independent in history to win an election ?

-badum tish-

On second thought, if he claims to be an independent he should voted for separately on the ballet boxes

-Democratic

-Republican

..Bernie sanders

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#290344: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:23:46 AM

So if Sanders becomes the president he can claim to be the first independent in history to win an election ?

No, that'd still be Washtingon. Do pay attention, please. tongue

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290345: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:26:51 AM

He technically could leave the party after winning, I’m not sure if he’d still count as a democrat though, as he’d have won as one.

Also it’s worth remembering that it’s not just Democrats who vote for the Democratic nominee, depending on the state an independent or even a Republican can vote in the democratic primary. Also the government foots the bill for the primary, not the party.

It’s a weird system that’s both a no-party system and one-party-state system, but with two parties, because you guys do everything bigger.

Edited by Silasw on Sep 18th 2019 at 4:27:25 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#290346: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:27:19 AM

[up][up][up] IIRC that's how he runs and wins in lower races than the Presidency. He certainly ran against both for mayor of Burlington.

Edited by AzurePaladin on Sep 18th 2019 at 12:27:26 PM

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#290347: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:28:23 AM

I think that for his senate seat the local democrats don’t nominate anyone, as it would split the vote and give the republicans the seat.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#290348: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:40:26 AM

[up]Apparently their nominee was him - he just declined it to run as an independent and they didn't nominate anyone else?

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#290349: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:44:14 AM

It was more as a formality thing than anything else. The party still supported him regardless and he stumped for other local Democrats in turn.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#290350: Sep 18th 2019 at 9:45:59 AM

I think I've written about this before. Basically, Sanders in 1990 or so ran a third party challenge that was strong enough to split the Democratic vote and allow a (moderate) Republican to be elected to the House of Representatives from Vermont. The next election cycle he and the Democratic party made a deal whereby they would not run a candidate/ask their voters to vote for him and in return he would caucus with the Democrats in the House and follow their directives. This deal continued in the Senate.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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