TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#289926: Sep 12th 2019 at 8:27:48 PM

The very fact that you're talking about them now and wouldn't be if they hadn't interrupted the debate is why they interrupted the debate.

Dismissing them as "obnoxious children" because they're desperately trying to raise attention about an issue that they believe puts their lives at risk strikes me as a rather callous attitude.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#289927: Sep 12th 2019 at 8:30:09 PM

I didn't see what happened, but protests are supposed to be obstructive by design. That's an odd complaint to have about one.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289928: Sep 12th 2019 at 8:32:57 PM

The very fact that you're talking about them now and wouldn't be if they hadn't interrupted the debate is why they interrupted the debate.

Dismissing them as "obnoxious children" because they're desperately trying to raise attention about an issue that they believe puts their lives at risk strikes me as a rather callous attitude.

I'm talking about them now out of contempt, that is not evidence of their strategy being particularly efficacious.

Furthermore, they're absolutely obnoxious children when they can't be bothered to actually spend a second researching the stances of the candidates on DACA. Or worse they did and don't care.

I didn't see what happened, but protests are supposed to be obstructive by design. That's an odd complaint to have about one.

That doesn't address the fact that 100% of the current field supports the rights of DACA recipients.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 12th 2019 at 8:33:40 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#289929: Sep 12th 2019 at 8:39:45 PM

Maybe they wanted attention drawn to it because it wasn't discussed very much during the debate proper. Maybe they're worried that the Democratic nominee will walk back their word, always a concern. Maybe even they didn't know.

It doesn't matter. The debate was interrupted for less than a minute, the cause they were there for is far more important than that. And certainly protesting does not make them "children" - what an utterly condescending thing to say.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#289930: Sep 12th 2019 at 8:42:37 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/09/12/day-966/

    Day 966: Simply unacceptable. 
1/ The Trump administration repealed Obama's landmark clean water protections that had placed limits on polluting chemicals that could be used near streams, wetlands, and other bodies of water. The Obama-era Waters of the United States rule was designed to limit pollution in about 60% of the nation's bodies of water, protecting sources of drinking water for about one-third of the U.S., and extended existing federal authority to limit pollution in large bodies of water. The EPA plans to also establish a stricter legal definition of what qualifies as "waters of the United States" under the Clean Water Act before the end of the year. The existing rules would be replaced with a much narrower definition of the types of tributaries, streams, and wetlands that are subject to protections. (Washington Post / New York Times / Politico / CBS News)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/trump-repeal-epa-water-rule-1492183

2/ The Supreme Court ruled that the Trump administration can continue to deny most Central American migrants from seeking asylum in the U.S. while a legal battle over the issue plays out in the lower courts. The Court issued a brief, unsigned order that says the administration can enforce new rules that generally refuse asylum applications from migrants who failed to apply for it in another country after leaving home but before arriving at the southern border. For instance, migrants from Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador cannot seek asylum in the U.S. if they didn't first ask for it in Mexico. A separate lawsuit to overturn the new rules is still working its way through the lower courts. (New York Times / NBC News / Reuters / Wall Street Journal / Washington Post)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-asylum-idUSKCN1VW2U4

3/ The CEOs of 145 companies called on the Senate to pass "common-sense gun laws," stating that it is "simply unacceptable" to do nothing about gun violence in America. The letter urges the Republican-controlled Senate to enact bills already introduced in the House that would require background checks for all firearm sales and stronger "red flag" laws, which could prevent shootings in cases where family members or law enforcement report concerns about someone who may be at risk of harming themselves or others. (NPR / New York Times)

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/12/760144527/145-ceos-call-on-senate-to-pass-commonsense-bipartisan-gun-laws

4/ The Trump administration discussed offering China a limited trade agreement that would delay or roll back some U.S. tariffs increases set to take effect in October and December in exchange for Chinese commitments on intellectual property and agricultural purchases. Several of Trump's top economic officials are reportedly trying to resurrect the deal they were previously negotiating with China that officials said was "90 percent" done. A senior White House official, however, said the U.S. is "absolutely not" considering an interim trade deal with China. (Bloomberg / Politico / CNBC)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/donald-trump-china-tariffs-1728369

5/ The FBI and other federal agencies accused Israel of placing cell phone surveillance devices near the White House within the past two years. The devices were likely intended to spy on Trump, according to senior U.S. officials, but it is unclear whether the attempts were successful. When Trump administration officials heard about the surveillance devices, however, they didn't rebuke Israel, which is usually the case when incidents of foreign spying are discovered on U.S. soil. A spokesperson for the Israeli Embassy called the claims "absolute nonsense," and insisted that "Israel doesn't conduct espionage operations in the United States, period." (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house-spying-devices-1491351

6/ The U.S. deficit surpassed $1 trillion in the first 11 months of the fiscal year – up 19% from a year ago and exceeding $1 trillion for the first time since 2012. The government said it expects to borrow more than $1 trillion for the second year in a row in 2019. (Wall Street Journal / Bloomberg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-12/u-s-posts-1-trillion-budget-gap-though-full-year-may-be-lower

7/ The Justice Department recommended indicting former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe over his alleged "lack of candor" during an internal watchdog probe in 2017. McCabe authorized the FBI to investigate possible coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia to influence the 2016 election. The grand jury hearing the case was recalled this week after going months without meeting but left without revealing any immediate signs of an indictment. (Washington Post / NBC News / Politico / CNN / New York Times)

8/ The House Judiciary Committee approved a resolution defining the rules for its impeachment investigation into Trump. The measure also triggers a House rule that gives Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler the ability to deem committee hearings as impeachment hearings, allowing staffers to question witnesses for an hour at the end of every hearing, gives Trump's lawyers the ability to respond in writing to public testimony, and allows the committee to collect information in secret "executive sessions." The Judiciary Committee believes it has identified five areas of potential obstruction in Robert Mueller's probe of Russian interference in the 2016 election, in addition to the hush-money payments to two women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump, and allegations that Trump has used his public office to benefit his private business. The resolution passed along party lines, 24-17. (New York Times / NBC News / Politico / CNN / Washington Post / Reuters)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/justice-department-recommends-andrew-mccabe-indictment-1492925

MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#289931: Sep 12th 2019 at 8:48:14 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#289932: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:04:04 PM

[up]What's with the personal swipe? Isn't that off-topic and against the rules?

Do not obey in advance.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#289933: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:04:26 PM

If they wanted to be disruptive, they could've waited till the post-debate talks, looked for whoever was talking in front of a camera, shoved them aside and then spoken. That way, it's clear what they're there for right out the gate, and no one has to wait for somebody else to confirm anything.

They just weren't efficient about it.

i'm tired, my friend
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#289934: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:14:58 PM

[up][up] No more so than Azure Paladin calling him condescending or Native Jovian saying he was callous

Edited by MrHellboy on Sep 12th 2019 at 11:15:28 AM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#289935: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:15:59 PM

Perhaps it'd be best to talk about the debate itself, as this is getting into dubious and borderline incivil territory. I'd prefer not to thump anyone else.

Edited by nombretomado on Sep 12th 2019 at 9:16:23 AM

MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#289936: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:18:20 PM

So I guess you agree with him that "civility" is more important than calling people out for their callousness and cruelty.

Yeah, whatever. I'm out

Edited by MrHellboy on Sep 12th 2019 at 11:19:38 AM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#289937: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:23:42 PM

...I still don't see how Azure Paladin was failing to be compassionate.

Do not obey in advance.
nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#289938: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:24:26 PM

Guys, what I asked for applied to everyone. Please move on from this.

MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#289939: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:25:11 PM

Forget it. It was a mistake for me to get involved.

I apologize

Edited by MrHellboy on Sep 12th 2019 at 11:25:36 AM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#289940: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:31:29 PM

Back on the subject then, debate highlights after the fact:

  • Seems to be a lot of attention on Castro being savage, which isn't a surprise.
  • Someone get Bernie a lozenge, and he got a question on democratic socialism vs. Venezuela.
  • Lot of piling on Biden in general, no surprise there. The moderators hit him hard on past comments and immigration in the Obama era. That surprised me.

Other than that, not much to talk about. Don't see this moving the needle much.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289941: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:33:56 PM

Didn't Bernie confirm that he opposed abolishing the filibuster?

If so, that's a real yikes from me. Without abolishing the filibuster the majority of his, or any Democrat's, agenda is actively impossible for years. Which is horrifically bad.

We cannot afford to let our problems fester, they have to be dealt with or else our society will suffer an incalculable cost.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 12th 2019 at 9:35:42 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#289942: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:36:13 PM

My mother seems to be of the opinion that Biden is just a sweet, charming old man and Castro is just a big meanie for laying into him so hard.

I... don't know what that says about her

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#289943: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:36:20 PM

[up][up] In the current situation, the Democrats are very impeded by abusing the filibuster, yes. But I guess those afraid of outright abolishing it may think along the lines of "yeah now it's an obstacle to us but what if somewhere down the line it would be a valuable tool and we got rid of it?"

Edited by akanesarumara on Sep 12th 2019 at 6:37:36 PM

CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#289944: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:41:27 PM

[up]Which is a demonstrably ridiculous fear. The GOP has already demonstrated that the filibuster can be abolished for the sake of expediency whenever it impedes their agenda. When the possibility of the filibuster's abolition is used to blackmail the opposition against filibustering, the act is useless, and it's better to just strike while the iron's hot and preempt them in getting rid of it.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#289945: Sep 12th 2019 at 9:50:09 PM

[up] Still, even an irrational and proven wrong fear can be a motivation for someone.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#289946: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:07:25 PM

I have had a feeling that people might start to feel sympathy for Biden after all the piling on in the debates. Especially since he tends to act gracious afterwards.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#289947: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:34:36 PM

I'm sure a lot of his current base already do that.

@Hellboy: Your mom feels sympathy for Biden.

Watch me destroying my country
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#289948: Sep 12th 2019 at 11:21:30 PM

It's far from clear that the filibuster fear is "irrational and wrong". Evil Turtle did only bring a few bills forward when he had a trifecta - seemingly, in part, due to concerns about filibustering - and some of them failed due to filibusters. Since he's always considered the filibuster important to keep future liberal bills at bay, there is no indication that Republicans will kick him out and he's always held the line on keeping the filibuster for laws, I think there is a point to be made that this is the only line he won't cross.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#289949: Sep 13th 2019 at 12:04:31 AM

As we’re on the filibuster it’s probably worth pointing out that Last Week Tonight big a main segment on it last week, the segment is available on You Tube (I can’t imbed due to being on mobile).

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#289950: Sep 13th 2019 at 12:27:52 AM

The filibuster is moronic. The senate is already anti-majoritarian, in that it represents states, not populations, which dramatically over-represents small and rural states. Fine, the US is somewhat federal, if you cant get the backing of half the states, maybe you should not do whatever you are contemplating. But.. 2 thirds of (senators representing) the states? That is just goddess accursed silly. That is simply a formula for not legislating. Yes, some day down the line a party other than the democrats might use a filibuster-less senate to actually pass laws. That is what is supposed to happen when a party wins elections. They winner gets to do things, and then those things influence the next election, depending on how well they work out.

Edited by Izeinsummer on Sep 13th 2019 at 12:30:19 PM


Total posts: 417,856
Top