TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The General US Politics Thread

Go To

Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.


In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#289326: Sep 5th 2019 at 8:28:31 AM

We know exactly how to dispose of nuclear waste. The problem is entirely NIMBYism. Fusion power is still being developed and we aren't sure if it's going to work yet. The differences are vast.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#289327: Sep 5th 2019 at 8:29:06 AM

A) the thing the causes the end of the world in every post-apocalypse movie ever made, and B) the thing that caused the end of Hiroshima. Contrarily, when was the last time you heard the term "Solar War"? Or "Electric War"? You've probably never heard anyone talk about "solar/electric fallout" either. And enemy nations do not abstain from warring because of the threat of the sun.

Points A and B I can perfectly agree with - there is no denying nuclear power had no part in the destruction at the end of the second world war, at Fukushima or at Chernobyl and there are probably those who think the human decisions or errors would have had different, probably less destructive, effects without it.

As for solar fallout, the thing that may count as such, if any, is UV radiation - and even then it is very easy to forget visible light is just another form of radiation too. The visible light has been around for literally forever - we have had ample time to gather empirical experience about it and study it, whereas radioactivity has only been known for a much shorter time. We don't know as much about it, and a lot of what we do know resulted from terrible accidents or tragedies both great and small.

We do need to study it to be able to use it more safely. If to that one were to ask, are there places better suited for that study than a nuclear power plant? Well, probably, but I'm not sure.

Edited by akanesarumara on Sep 5th 2019 at 5:29:45 PM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#289328: Sep 5th 2019 at 8:36:04 AM

Yucca Mountain is a bit more complex than people here are putting. For one thing, a big part of the reason why it was chosen was due to maneuvering in Congress, which has less to do with the actual suitability of the place and more with power games between senators and representatives and the fact that Nevada is a small state.

Secondhandly, while earthquakes are not necessarily a big hazard at Yucca Mountain as one can earthquake-proof the place, volcanoes and climate change are: The repository is located within a volcanic field and a volcanic eruption through it would be hard to mitigate against and in the past (and the future) the climate will become much wetter and flush out dangerous materials.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#289329: Sep 5th 2019 at 8:39:05 AM

Nuclear power just isn't a pool that people want to dip their toes in
And yet...

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#289330: Sep 5th 2019 at 8:53:33 AM

Fusion and space elevators are things we do not know how to do yet, so it doesn’t really make any sense to compare it to something we both know how to do and in fact are already doing.

Disposing of nuclear waste isn’t a mystery, the problem is the politics.

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289331: Sep 5th 2019 at 9:10:57 AM

Which is probably why Warren isn't in favor of it, which is unfortunate but I'm not going to lay the responsibility entirely at her feet.

Especially when she adopted and expanded Inslee's climate plan, perfect is the enemy of good and when it comes to Climate Change she's very good.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 5th 2019 at 9:11:16 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
#289332: Sep 5th 2019 at 9:24:35 AM

To solve the energy crisis, we basically have to do one of three undesirable things:

  1. Continue using fossil fuels long term and slowly phase them out as renewable energy technology improves.
  2. Use Nuclear power as a stepping stone while renewable energy technology improves.
  3. Spend a massive amount of money to reduce decades of renewable energy research into a few years.

Basically, option 1 won't work because climate change. Option 2 is the best of a poor lot. And option 3 could be disastrous for the global economy.

Edited by bitemytail on Sep 5th 2019 at 9:25:53 AM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#289333: Sep 5th 2019 at 9:26:07 AM

Hardly. Option 3 would see economic gains, as all the spending would stimulate growth and consumption. That's what happens when you spend money, something conservative "economists" have yet to figure out.

There is ample capital available to fund renewable energy projects without taking a single penny from middle-class consumers. The "how do we pay for it" question is a pure gotcha without any basis in reality.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 5th 2019 at 12:28:14 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
#289334: Sep 5th 2019 at 9:57:49 AM

I'm not sure I follow.

You raise my taxes to fund renewable energy research. From my perspective, I'm paying money, but not actually getting anything in return. I still get the same electricity as I had yesterday, but at tomorrow's price. While reducing my own disposable income.

The massive US debt suggests that ample funds are not "available". The US isn't just sitting on the $16 trillion dollars Bernie Sanders wants.

Edited by bitemytail on Sep 5th 2019 at 9:58:48 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#289335: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:02:41 AM

[up]The only thing you’re missing is that it’s not your taxes that are going up. (Well, ideally, or at least, mostly.) It’s going to be all those corrupt corporate executives finally contributing to the country.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Sep 5th 2019 at 1:04:09 PM

My musician page
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#289336: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:06:00 AM

'twould also be nice if less money went to the military-industrial complex. Or private prisons. Or any of the many, many other ways the government provides back scratchings to rich corporations.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289337: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:10:55 AM

'm not sure I follow.

You raise my taxes to fund renewable energy research. From my perspective, I'm paying money, but not actually getting anything in return. I still get the same electricity as I had yesterday, but at tomorrow's price. While reducing my own disposable income.

The massive US debt suggests that ample funds are not "available". The US isn't just sitting on the $16 trillion dollars Bernie Sanders wants.

Your perspective is wrong, funding renewable energy not just creates jobs but actively fights against the existential threat that will impact all of our lives. If that's not "getting something in return" then nothing is.

Furthermore, bringing up US debt is a non-sequitur. Part of the reason it's so bad is that, often Republican, Presidents have raised expenses while slashing taxes. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders support raising taxes on the people that are taxed far too lightly, the ultra-wealthy and big companies. So the money absolutely exists. Not to mention I don't see the point of worrying about government debt when we're talking about fighting an existential threat.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 5th 2019 at 10:12:01 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#289338: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:36:37 AM

Speaking of which, getting to live on your planet for 70 more years is also a pretty big reward. If, that is, you wanna go down the line of "Yeah, but what's in it for *me*?"

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Sep 5th 2019 at 1:38:06 PM

i'm tired, my friend
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#289339: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:42:45 AM

I continue to be amazed that people think the literal continued existence of the human race is too pricey to put tax dollars into.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289340: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:45:21 AM

I continue to be amazed that people think the literal continued existence of the human race is too pricey to put tax dollars into.

Or <gasp> increase government debt.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#289341: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:51:11 AM

The last time the US had no debt was in the early 1800's. It then skyrocketed during the Civil War and hasn't gone away since. Somehow we've always managed to pay for huge projects despite it, so the idea that the national debt would prevent us from investing in clean tech and infrastructure flies in the face of all US history.

bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
#289342: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:56:11 AM

Or... we could save a ton of money by using nuclear power while we work on more manageable renewable energy solutions. Y'know, the 2nd option in my original post.

But if it's easier to strawman me, we can go that route too.

Also, I'm all in favor of taxing the rich and corporations more, but I feel like the Democrats want to pay for everything using this single pool of money.

We can afford to have free college, free healthcare, electric car subsidies, 100% renewable energy, plus anything else I forgot, all by taxing the rich more and cutting military spending?

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#289343: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:57:26 AM

Yeah, pretty much. The human brain isn’t wired to understand how much money a hundred million dollars or a billion dollars is.

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#289344: Sep 5th 2019 at 10:57:45 AM

Pardon me if I’m wrong but even in the worst case scenarios I don’t think Climate Change literally wipes out the human race and/or renders Earth uninhabitable for humans.

Not to mention it’s pretty easy to obfuscate the effects of climate change as natural or influenced by something else.

Given that it doesn’t at all surprise me if some people, particularly well to do people in the first-world would rather not spend huge amounts of money to fix this. After all, it’s not like its effecting them (even though it already is), and it’s not like science can’t figure it out (even though it’s not up to science to figure it out). And if your old enough, you can just throw up your hands and not care since you will be dead.

[up][up]It really would not be that much cheaper (at least in the US) and would still require much of the same infrastructure as a conversion to Solar/Wind in order electrify everything.

Edited by Mio on Sep 5th 2019 at 2:01:07 PM

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#289345: Sep 5th 2019 at 11:09:18 AM

Or... we could save a ton of money by using nuclear power while we work on more manageable renewable energy solutions. Y'know, the 2nd option in my original post.

You seemed to have missed the part where I said that as long as nuclear remains unpopular with the public, that ain't happening, and also that sitting around waiting for people to come around on nuclear isn't an option.

i'm tired, my friend
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#289346: Sep 5th 2019 at 11:11:37 AM

So in pinnacle Dramatically Missing the Point, the DOJ is currently drafting plans to punish mass shooters more swiftly... by expediting the Death Penalty against them. Kind of missing the fact that most of them want to be an Inspirational Martyr, and even more have a deathwish to start with - otherwise they wouldn't go on an overt shooting spree.

President Trump raised the idea of expediting the death penalty for such crimes recently. Just last month following the shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio which left over 30 dead, Mr. Trump called on the Justice Department to propose such legislation, so that those who commit hate crimes and mass murders would face the death penalty "quickly" and "decisively," "without years of delay."

Mr. Trump referred to the West Texas shooter responsible for the 38th mass shooting this year as "another very sick person" and he also expressed some doubt about the efficacy of background checks.

"If you look at the last four or five, going back even five or six or seven years, for the most part, as strong as you make your background checks, they would not have stopped any of it," he told reporters on the White House lawn Sunday. "So it's a big problem. It's a mental problem."

And fuck Trump for that bullshit - the person that sold that prick the gun would have been arrested if he'd done that in NY State, which only permits person-to-person sales without an FFA dealer's involvement if both people are directly related to each other.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289347: Sep 5th 2019 at 11:13:17 AM

You seemed to have missed the part where I said that as long as nuclear remains unpopular with the public, that ain't happening, and also that sitting around waiting for people to come around on nuclear isn't an option.

Indeed, not to mention I don't really see any reason to believe that pursuing Nuclear power would even involve "saving tons of money".

Massively restructuring the national power system wouldn't be cheap regardless of what means you use, and it's not like renewable energy is this untested or unknown industry. It's becoming more economically efficient every day, and federal funding would just accelerate the process.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#289348: Sep 5th 2019 at 11:20:50 AM

So in pinnacle Dramatically Missing the Point, the DOJ is currently drafting plans to punish mass shooters more swiftly... by expediting the Death Penalty against them. Kind of missing the fact that most of them want to be an Inspirational Martyr, and even more have a deathwish to start with - otherwise they wouldn't go on an overt shooting spree.

The paranoia in me wants to say that Republians want shooters killed before they have a chance to publicize their political manifesto.

We already know they're trying to get people to use the term "radical leftist violence" instead of "spree shooter". Silencing spree shooters before their actual goals can be publicized makes it easier to go, "This guy was in his mid-20's so we're pretty sure he was shooting people because he wanted a participation trophy. And also he liked to kneel for the pledge of allegiance. It was a protest shooting. Do you think he might have been Antifa?"

But that's the paranoia in me speaking.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 5th 2019 at 12:21:41 PM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#289349: Sep 5th 2019 at 11:22:01 AM

So #SharpieGate continues, with our commander in chief predictably sextupling down. Now some are claiming that by doctoring an official map, Trump may have violated federal law.

This is the stupidest scandal in the history of stupid. And I'm sure the people affected by the hurricane appreciate that the president has his priorities in check.

Edited by speedyboris on Sep 5th 2019 at 11:22:47 AM

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#289350: Sep 5th 2019 at 11:30:58 AM

Just as a non-sequitur observation, it's fascinating how Nixon's screw-up and the name of a hotel have left an indelible mark on the naming convention for scandals and conspiracies both political and non-political.


Total posts: 417,856
Top