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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#289101: Sep 1st 2019 at 2:42:25 PM

[up] Probably a little bit of all three. Large riots are very difficult to contain successfully, they’re almost a no-win scenario for police.

For starters, you want to commit as little resources as necessary to an operation. State PDs handle a lot of different tasks all at once, so they don’t want to overcommit to something that turns out to be nothing. Add to that the fact that it’s hard to project the size and disposition of a mob, given that people tend to spontaneously join them, and the fact that even with a bunch of officers there’s no guarantee things won’t go south, and you can kind of start to see the calculus here.

I’m guessing that State PD sent down its tactical units first, and it wasn’t until things started getting out of hand even for those guys that other resources started coming in.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 1st 2019 at 2:47:54 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#289102: Sep 1st 2019 at 7:43:03 PM

@President Stalkeyes: Jokes aside, here are some measures I'd take.

  1. Eliminate the filibuster. Nuclear launch detected, I know - but we need to ram stuff through.
  2. If necessary, pack the Supreme Court for the same reason.
  3. Impose a new Voting Rights Act on all states, including nonpartisan districting commissions and mandating that all citizens (including felons), in all states, be allowed to vote unconditionally.
  4. Repeal posse comitatus; that is, allow the use of federal troops to enforce federal law on states that resist them. (You know, when you get situations like the governor of Mississippi threatening to arrest feds coming down to enforce laws.)
  5. Create an easy path to citizenship for all current immigrants, preferably one that will vest them with voting rights before 2004.
  6. Admit Puerto Rico and Washington, DC as states.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289103: Sep 1st 2019 at 7:52:17 PM

Number 4 sounds... risky.

I mean, the rest are ambitious enough and likely to court controversy on their own. Including something that, frankly, looks really authoritarian thus majorly courting unnecessary controversy.

Any progress will involve dragging the reactionaries kicking and screaming with us, but I don't think calling in the military would be a good idea. That's like dumping gasoline on a decent sized fire.

Still, I like your boldness [tup]

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Sep 1st 2019 at 7:53:37 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#289104: Sep 1st 2019 at 7:52:53 PM

Besides, if we actually got a trifecta, we'd be able to explore a lot of options anyway.

6 is kind of iffy anyway, since it's still not clear if Puerto Ricans even want to become a new state.

Personally, I'd try bringing back the FCC fairness doctrine.

Edited by M84 on Sep 1st 2019 at 10:55:59 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#289105: Sep 1st 2019 at 8:38:54 PM

FWIW, the Posse Comitatus Act does have some exceptions, e.g. the Enforcement Acts that Eisenhower used to enforce desegregation of public schools in Little Rock, Arkansas against the segregationist governor's open defiance by sending federal troops.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#289106: Sep 1st 2019 at 9:17:21 PM

[up][up]They've said they want it. I mean, if they don't want it, we don't force them, but this time I'd make it a full-fledged referendum - "Puerto Rico, you want in? If so, you're in!" I agree about the Fairness Doctrine, though.

[up][up][up]At some point, there's going to be resistance that has to be crushed by a display of force. It happened last time we told the South "no, really, we're serious about civil rights," as Marq noted.

Edited by Ramidel on Sep 1st 2019 at 8:27:02 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#289107: Sep 1st 2019 at 9:24:58 PM

[up]We had a referendum with a Yes to statehood result in 2017, but the issue with it is that the voter participation was pretty low. It was about 23%.

Edited by M84 on Sep 2nd 2019 at 12:26:05 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#289108: Sep 1st 2019 at 9:39:54 PM

[up]Probably because said vote was, if I'm not mistaken, nonbinding. An actual referendum with Congress saying "if PR votes for this, they're a state" would, A, get a higher turnout, and B, if people didn't turn out to something like that, I would have no sympathy for them.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#289109: Sep 2nd 2019 at 6:20:28 AM

Number 4 sounds... risky.

I mean, the rest are ambitious enough and likely to court controversy on their own. Including something that, frankly, looks really authoritarian thus majorly courting unnecessary controversy.

Any progress will involve dragging the reactionaries kicking and screaming with us, but I don't think calling in the military would be a good idea. That's like dumping gasoline on a decent sized fire.

Still, I like your boldness [tup]

My thoughts on that too.

#4 is especially risky when packed in with the other stuff. I shudder to think what the next election would look like after four years of "Democrats ended the filibuster, crushing the minority party's ability to represent their constituents. THEN they packed the courts, diminishing the Supreme Court's ability to serve as a check and balance. And if you have a problem with it? They made it legal to send federal soldiers to your home and make you fall in line."

Heart's in the right place, but taken all together, that stuff is gonna look really bad to the moderates. I can already hear them warming up the "BOTHSIDES BOTHSIDES" chants.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 2nd 2019 at 7:21:43 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#289110: Sep 2nd 2019 at 6:25:28 AM

I’d also add that I’m not entirely sure why it’s necessary. It’s not like federal law enforcement is defenseless. This isn’t exactly the same situation as the end of segregation.

Edited by archonspeaks on Sep 2nd 2019 at 6:27:19 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#289111: Sep 2nd 2019 at 11:20:54 AM

California has a probable mass casualty shipboard fire going on. It was on a small ship, and while 5 crew members (who were above deck) managed to escape, the passengers were asleep and below deck... and considering the amount of time it took firefighters to get into the hull, it is not looking good. Fatalities are confirmed, but over 30 are still missing.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-boat-fire/index.html

Now while the fire was apparently very intense, I suspect that those crew members might be in serious shit for not even attempting rescue or evacuation.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:26:54 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#289112: Sep 2nd 2019 at 11:33:16 AM

They had better be in deep shit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#289113: Sep 2nd 2019 at 11:55:53 AM

Just saw that on the news, but it's more appropriate for this thread as it has nothing to do with US politics.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#289114: Sep 2nd 2019 at 12:01:56 PM

This is going to sound contrived but has anyone noticed how when they start applying cuts to police forces and crime goes up politicians start running on a 'tough on crime' platforms? Sometimes it's the same ones who applied the cuts in the first place!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#289115: Sep 2nd 2019 at 12:04:02 PM

"Tough on crime" is a dogwhistle.

Whenever a politician talks about being "tough on crime", they're trying to get you to think about scary black/Hispanic drug dealers robbing you at gunpoint. They're never talking about tax evasion. Or spree shootings. Or opioids.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#289116: Sep 2nd 2019 at 12:14:05 PM

Well yeah it's a generalised approach,and it works unsurprisingly,it works,because things like 'tax aversion' are nowhere near as scary as being robbed

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#289117: Sep 2nd 2019 at 12:44:29 PM

[up][up]That, and funneling more money into the prison industry.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289118: Sep 2nd 2019 at 1:37:29 PM

Wonder if "Tough on actual crime, not industrial prisons" will become an actual slogan for democratic candidates...

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#289119: Sep 2nd 2019 at 2:39:15 PM

Needs to roll of the tongue better

"Lethal on lawbreakers"

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 2nd 2019 at 9:39:23 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#289120: Sep 2nd 2019 at 2:43:12 PM

I'd vote for someone claiming they'd be tough on white-collar crime, but anyone who actually would make that claim might as well just paint a target on their head.

My musician page
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289121: Sep 2nd 2019 at 2:44:17 PM

[up][up]Forgot to mark it as Stylistic Suck.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#289122: Sep 2nd 2019 at 2:45:01 PM

"I'm going to take the money out of the politics!"

-suddenly all their funding vanishes-

"Doh!"

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#289123: Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:17:03 PM

Wonder if "Tough on actual crime, not industrial prisons" will become an actual slogan for democratic candidates...

Directly referencing Tough on Crime laws would be a horrid idea, it'd be like supporting desegregation with a set of policies that referenced Jim Crow or something.

Tough on Crime laws are something to move away from, not reference.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#289124: Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:42:16 PM

Heck, I'm iffy on the prospects of making white collar crime laws harsher as well. Not only would it likely not be used on the big wigs, the simple fact is that retributive justice is a failed model for anything other than getting some sense of satisfaction from revenge.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#289125: Sep 2nd 2019 at 3:44:42 PM

I feel in this case the certainity of the punishment should be more important than the severity.

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