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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#288926: Aug 29th 2019 at 11:28:39 PM

Youtube wants angry nerds watching WHY THE LAST JEDI SUCKS with millions of views.

They don't want terrorists.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 30th 2019 at 5:54:40 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#288927: Aug 30th 2019 at 4:57:17 AM

Cross-posted from the Tropical weather thread: Dorian is now a category 2, predicted to hit Florida somewhere near Palm Beach on overnight Tuesday as a category 4, and then predicted to make a sharp turn to the north and travel up the Florida peninsula.

That's a ton of rain in that scenario.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#288928: Aug 30th 2019 at 4:59:50 AM

[up][up] You sure you're in the right place to post that?

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#288929: Aug 30th 2019 at 5:23:38 AM

So this article is a few months old, but it just came to my attention. I think it is a really fascinating look at how Warren approaches an inside outside strategy for creating change.

Elizabeth Warren Took On Obama Over Student Debt Forgiveness. How She Won Is Central To Her 2020 Campaign

Buzz Feed News spoke to activists, consumer lawyers, congressional staffers, and former Obama administration officials about Warren’s work to secure loan forgiveness for Corinthian students, which began in 2014. Warren, they agree, played a pivotal role in the battle.

She did it by turning to what had become the core tool of her political life: a potent combination of grassroots activism, intense political pressure, and detailed analysis of consumer law. And she used that tool in part against her own party’s administration, strengthening a political identity that cut against what was then the mainstream of American liberalism.

Warren took a lasting lesson from the fight, she told Buzz Feed News in a recent interview, one that is now central to her presidential campaign: “Progress in America doesn’t happen without a grassroots army.”

But for someone who often presents herself as a political outsider, Warren also worked extensively within the boundaries of power to help get Corinthian students loan forgiveness — an approach that draws a contrast with Sen. Bernie Sanders, who has put far greater focus on large-scale outside pressure than on internal movements and incremental details.

One former Education Department official called it an “inside/outside strategy”: Warren would hammer the administration publicly at the same time she worked behind the scenes with those government officials, acting, many felt, as an ally.

In the end, the drawn-out political battle resulted in something that was entirely unprecedented: the loans of at least 30,000 students who were defrauded by Corinthian and other for-profit schools were wiped out entirely, at a cost to taxpayers that is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 30th 2019 at 5:27:14 AM

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#288930: Aug 30th 2019 at 5:31:51 AM

See, if memory serves the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau was also her baby.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#288931: Aug 30th 2019 at 5:55:31 AM

[up][up][up]You'll find a lot of people hate Youtube personalities who don't distance themselves from Alt-Right assassins in the wake of massacres. At least here.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 30th 2019 at 5:55:48 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#288932: Aug 30th 2019 at 6:37:46 AM

[up] My apologies Charles. Your comment didn't make it more relevant here.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#288933: Aug 30th 2019 at 6:40:23 AM

I think Charles is referring to that article last page about Infowars relaunching their channel after Youtube invited offensive material back, only to get promptly shut back down.

That said it was far enough back that and a page topper so context was lacking.

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 30th 2019 at 7:41:26 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#288934: Aug 30th 2019 at 6:43:58 AM

[up]x5 See, that's how I always thought progressive policymakers are supposed to act, and what I figured AOC was trying to do with the Green New Deal. Anyway, this is why I'm not too fond of radical leftists who believe any attempt to work with the (oppressive) system to enact change is somehow a betrayal of their ideals in favor of focusing entirely on the independent revolution. I understand not wanting to put all your eggs in the reform basket but sometimes you have to take those opportunities when you get them in order to make your overall job easier once the time comes. Lasting change requires both internal and external pressure to successfully establish a new homeostasis and I think Warren understands that best.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 30th 2019 at 9:48:09 AM

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#288935: Aug 30th 2019 at 6:58:58 AM

[up]x5 And if memory serves, the reason why she decided to run for Senate was because the Republicans blocked her as Obama's appointee to run the CFPB, as she was seen as too great a threat to the banks that the CFPB was set up to you know, regulate.

It would be a delicious irony if she becomes President - if the Republicans had let her become the CFPB head she might have just stayed there as she nurtured her baby into an effective champion for consumer rights and thus would it would never have occurred to her to go full bore into politics. As it is, she's currently one of the four likeliest people in the US that from January 2021 will have access to the entire spectrum of the capabilities of the executive branch to achieve her aims.

So yeah, good job Republicans in protecting your supporters in the banking sector with that strategy.

Edited by singularityshot on Aug 30th 2019 at 7:00:48 AM

Voltron64 Since: Jul, 2016
#288936: Aug 30th 2019 at 7:22:05 AM

[up] What did you expect? They're short-sighted garbage people.

Edited by Voltron64 on Aug 30th 2019 at 7:22:53 AM

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#288937: Aug 30th 2019 at 7:34:19 AM

Anyway, this is why I'm not too fond of radical leftists who believe any attempt to work with the (oppressive) system to enact change is somehow a betrayal of their ideals in favor of focusing entirely on the independent revolution.

MOD EDIT: We don't need this kind of Take Thats at other posters. I'm sure all five of them are heartbroken you feel that way.

I think most 'radical' leftists are well aware this is how it works, the ones that don't tend to be the 'recent converts'. Twenty-somethings who've realized their lives suck and that the current system is responsible, but who haven't figured out yet that that doesn't necessarily mean the system immediately needs to be burned down completely.

Edited by nombretomado on Aug 30th 2019 at 8:00:58 AM

Angry gets shit done.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#288938: Aug 30th 2019 at 7:36:29 AM

More then 5,less a ten,how many?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#288939: Aug 30th 2019 at 7:39:38 AM

[up][up]And this was necessary because...?

i'm tired, my friend
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#288940: Aug 30th 2019 at 7:42:30 AM

[up] Oh for the same reason the bit I quoted was necessary.

If you want to discuss it further we can take it to PMs. This thread is not about me.

Edited by Robrecht on Aug 30th 2019 at 4:44:44 PM

Angry gets shit done.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#288941: Aug 30th 2019 at 7:52:49 AM

[up]And who said this was about you? This about how a passive-aggressive sarcastic comment about the volume doesn't invalidate her remark like you seem to want it to, even less so after you went back to elaborate.

i'm tired, my friend
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#288942: Aug 30th 2019 at 8:00:28 AM

[up]x5

I think most 'radical' leftists are well aware this is how it works, the ones that don't tend to be the 'recent converts'. Twenty-somethings who've realized their lives suck and that the current system is responsible, but who haven't figured out yet that that doesn't necessarily mean the system immediately needs to be burned down completely.

Hoooo boy. Look up Warren and Bernie on twitter and prepare to see hundreds of people calling her a lying establishment sell out because she’s got the DNC sorta warming to her.

nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#288943: Aug 30th 2019 at 8:02:00 AM

~Robrecht, note the edit I just made to your post. If you want to have civil conversations, a good place to start is being civil yourself.

Edited by nombretomado on Aug 30th 2019 at 8:18:55 AM

speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#288944: Aug 30th 2019 at 11:25:30 AM

So a thing the last couple of days is Trump backers (first Kayleigh McEnany, and now Stuart Varney) making the absurd claim that he doesn't lie. Like, at ALL. How delusional do you have to be to think this way? Even some of Trump's supporters admit the guy lies but don't care. Which, I don't know which situation is worse but... come on. The guy lies. That's indisputable.

Edited by speedyboris on Aug 30th 2019 at 11:25:41 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#288945: Aug 30th 2019 at 11:26:37 AM

We're literally counting his lies on a weekly basis and routinely seeing double digits.

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 30th 2019 at 12:28:32 PM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#288946: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:12:16 PM

[up]X4 In fairness we have no idea how many of the twitter people are actual people as opposed to operatives of foreign intelligence organisations.

Some of them are real people and some of the real people are being genuine (instead of hating Warren for others reasons but pretending it’s because she works with the establishment), but we have no way to measure what percentage of angry twitter people are genuine Americans expressing a truly held political belief.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#288947: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:47:43 PM

[up] [awesome]This.

It's why it's really annoying to see that some people in OTC feel the need to constantly bring up what they supposedly see leftists doing elsewhere.

Operative word there being elsewhere.

Edited by Robrecht on Aug 30th 2019 at 9:51:40 PM

Angry gets shit done.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#288948: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:51:30 PM

One or two throwaway remarks every five pages or so =/= "constant".

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288949: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:52:40 PM

[up][up]Wisewillow is hardly a centrist, and she didn't say anything about them being leftists or otherwise imply that such a view is common amongst the Left.

I'm not saying that people don't try to push that but I really think you're reading something that isn't there, at least, not this time.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 30th 2019 at 12:53:45 PM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#288950: Aug 30th 2019 at 12:53:17 PM

Twitter is something that people need to be aware of being both real and not real at the same time.

What is said on twitter has a real impact on the world and the people in it, hate expressed online can cause real-world harm, but at the same time it is not a microcosm of the world as a whole, certain groups have a massively outsized representation on twitter and have that engaged even more though focus on them.

The percentage of idiots on twitter is not the same as the percentage of idiots in the world.

[up] It was a response to a counter-claim that said that most radical leftists like Warren, it’s not unreasonable to consider the response an opposing view that claims most radical leftists dislike Warren and that twitter is evidence of that.

Edited by Silasw on Aug 30th 2019 at 7:55:18 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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