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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#288776: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:18:29 PM

[up] Thats another type thats also prevalent, sure.

I believe the term for those people, especially those from the DNC, is 'Corporate Democrat'.

Edited by Forenperser on Aug 27th 2019 at 1:19:05 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#288777: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:25:15 PM

[up]According to Bernie Sanders, the "corporate Democratic Party" wing is "anyone but Bernie".

Sanders knocks Warren: Corporate wing of Democratic Party is 'anybody but Bernie'

Disgusted, but not surprised
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#288778: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:27:50 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
Angry gets shit done.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#288779: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:29:12 PM

Yes, I did.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) took a shot at Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) on Wednesday, a sign that the fight to be the Democratic Party’s progressive standard-bearer is heating up as Warren rises in the polls.

Sanders, referencing a Politico article about how centrist Democrats are flocking to Warren’s campaign in an effort to ensure he doesn’t win the nomination, tweeted that the “corporate wing” of the Democratic Party is intent on electing anyone but him.

“The cat is out of the bag,” Sanders tweeted. “The corporate wing of the Democratic Party is publicly ‘anybody but Bernie.’ They know our progressive agenda of Medicare for All, breaking up big banks, taking on drug companies and raising wages is the real threat to the billionaire class.”

He tried to walk back on it later. "Tried".

Sanders on Wednesday night denied the tweet was aimed at Warren, saying it was intended to be about the think-tank Third Way.

“That tweet was not about Elizabeth Warren at all. Not at all. Elizabeth is a friend of mine, and we’re going to run what I hope are issue-oriented campaigns," Sanders told CNN's Chris Cuomo on "Cuomo Primetime."

Even some of his supporters think he messed up here.

Still, even some Sanders supporters say the attack on Warren has a whiff of panic about it.

Jonathan Tasini, a progressive strategist who strongly supports Sanders and will vote for him, called it “dumb and unwise” to cast Warren in anything other than a positive light.

“Bernie needs to expand his base and it makes no sense to react to a poll in June 2019 to tarnish Warren and alienate a significant slice of voters she is appealing to, especially women, because six months from now, you might need those voters who will flip you the bird if they sense you had a hand in wounding her, not to mention needing them to be enthusiastic to vote in the general election if you are the nominee,” Tasini said.

Edited by M84 on Aug 27th 2019 at 7:33:28 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#288780: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:36:14 PM

[up] Do you grasp that intended meaning there is that Sanders thinks the reason the moderate Democrats (what he calls the corporate wing of the Democratic Party, and I don't fully disagree) are flocking to Warren is that they have 'anybody but Bernie' as a stance... Not that he's defining the corporate wing of the Democratic Party as everyone except himself?

Angry gets shit done.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#288781: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:38:19 PM

Or, maybe, it's because she and Bernie support many of the same things but she's bigger on explaining how she'll actually accomplish them?

Or, just the fact that the way he acted during the 2016 primaries could very reasonably turn people off of him, without having to do anything with corporatism?

Edited by LSBK on Aug 27th 2019 at 6:39:06 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#288782: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:38:57 PM

[up][up]What he was doing is trying to cast shade on Warren's progressive credentials by tying her to "Corporate" Democratic people.

One Democratic strategist who is not affiliated with any campaigns said Sanders’s comment shows he’s concerned by Warren’s polling gains.

“They know she’s gaining, and in some places already passing him, and they don’t have a good plan to counter it,” the strategist said. “Yelling about Third Way or the establishment has gotten him very far in the past, but Warren is passing him not just because she has a lot of new policy ideas, but because she is running a much better campaign while they’re stuck playing the hits from last time.”

[up]Also, this.

Edited by M84 on Aug 27th 2019 at 7:40:10 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288783: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:40:54 PM

I think the more damning claim of that episode was that they opposed him because of his progressive vision, implying that Warren isn't exactly as progressive as he is.

If "corporate dems" opposed Sanders because of his economic leftism then they sure as hell wouldn't support Warren, considering that she offers the exact same thing.

Which suggests that it's something else that leads to voters preferring her over him. Possibly his less substantive policy, or his relentless attacks against the "establishment".

Personally, I prefer both reasons.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 27th 2019 at 4:41:12 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#288784: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:43:19 PM

Also, we shouldn't be expecting Yang to endorse Sanders, given Sanders' opinion of UBI.

Sanders criticizes Yang's universal basic income proposal: 'People want to work'

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) says there’s “no question” that automation and artificial intelligence will have a fundamental impact on working families but he doesn't think fellow candidate Andrew Yang's proposal of a universal basic income is necessarily the solution.

"This is an issue that is of enormous consequences for working people," Sanders told Hill.TV in response to the future impact of automation. "It is an issue that gotten nowhere near the kind of discussion that it needs."

But in response to Yang's proposed universal basic income Sanders emphasized that "people want to work" and the desire to "be a productive member of society" is a "very deeply ingrained feeling that people have."

"The challenge that we face is how do we use technology to improve the lives of working people," Sanders said. "So if you have a really terrible job, a boring job and we make your job better and we enable you to work 20 hours a week rather than 40 hours a week, it's not a bad thing...but it means to say you still need an income to live by, we can't cut your salaries in half."

Sanders went on to tout his federal jobs guarantee as a more viable alternative.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#288785: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:52:06 PM

People will work if they don't have to.

Prisoners volunteer for labor because its better than sitting in a cell.

A UBI means they won't DIE if they don't.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 27th 2019 at 4:52:19 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288786: Aug 27th 2019 at 4:52:10 PM

[up][up]Good point.

Frankly, I'd argue it doesn't really matter who Yang endorses considering how irrelevant he is.

(I realize you didn't create the discussion, I'm making a general point)

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 27th 2019 at 4:52:25 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#288787: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:01:03 PM

"Trump, on climate, says he won't jeopardize U.S. wealth on 'dreams'."

U.S. President Donald Trump, responding to a question about climate change after skipping a G7 session on the issue, said on Monday that American wealth is based on energy and he will not jeopardize that for dreams and windmills.
Sucker's bet: He actually meant "I won't jeopardize my wealth".

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#288788: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:02:29 PM

https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/08/27/day-950/

    Day 950: Downhill. 
1/ The Trump administration is pulling $155 million from FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund to temporarily pay for court hearing locations for asylum-seekers along the southern border who have been forced to wait in Mexico. The Department of Homeland Security will also lose $116 million previously allocated for Coast Guard operations, aviation security, and more in order to fund nearly 6,800 more beds for immigrant detainees. Combined with existing space, the funding would allow ICE to detain nearly 50,000 immigrants at one time. The Trump administrations sent the allocation changes to Congress as a notification rather than a request. Puerto Rico is currently under a hurricane watch, which Trump complained about as "yet another big storm" before overstating how much money Congress allocated for recovery in the wake of Hurricane Maria in 2017. (NBC News / Washington Post / CNN / BuzzFeed News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-admin-pulling-millions-fema-disaster-relief-send-southern-border-n1046691

2/ The attorneys general for 19 states and the District of Columbia sued the Trump administration to block a new rule to indefinitely detain migrant families who cross the border illegally. The new rule would terminate the Flores agreement, which puts a 20-day limit on how long children can be held in immigration detention. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-detention-idUSKCN1VG1ZB

📌 Day 924: The Trump administration will terminate the 20-day cap for detaining migrant children and allow the government to indefinitely detain migrant families who cross the border illegally. The new regulation, announced by acting Department of Homeland Security chief Kevin McAleenan, requires approval from a federal judge before it can go into effect and could be in defiance of the 2015 Flores agreement, which limited the time families could be detained to 20 days. Trump and Republicans have repeatedly blamed the 20-day rule for encouraging migrants to arrive at the border with their children expecting to be released. Administration officials claim the new rule will serve as a deterrent against migrant families. The Trump administration proposed a similar rule in September 2018 that would have allowed the government to detain migrant children for longer periods of time, so long as they were treated with "dignity, respect and special concern for their particular vulnerability as minors." (ABC News / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / NBC News / New York Times)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-administration-lift-limit-how-long-it-can-detain-migrant-n1044666

3/ Homeland Security plans to launch a program aimed at protecting voter registration databases and systems from ransomware attacks ahead of the 2020 presidential election. The systems are used to validate the eligibility of voters before they cast ballots. They were compromised in 2016 by Russian hackers collecting voter information. Intelligence officials say that in 2020, however, foreign hackers will not only target the databases, but could also attempt to manipulate, disrupt, or destroy the data altogether. A senior U.S. official says the systems are classified as "high risk." (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-election-exclusive-idUSKCN1VG222

4/ Attorney General William Barr booked Trump's D.C. hotel for a 200-person holiday party in December. Trump's hotel will likely earn more than $30,000 in revenue from the event. Justice Department attorneys, meanwhile, are currently defending Trump's business in court, arguing that he has not violated the emoluments clause of the Constitution. (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/27/cheers-barr-books-trumps-hotel-holiday-party/

5/ Trump blamed "Radical Left Democrats" for spreading a "false and nasty rumor" about a bedbug infestation at the Trump National Doral Miami golf resort. "No bedbugs at Doral," Trump tweeted, referring to a lawsuit over bedbugs that the resort settled in 2017. The hashtag "#TrumpBedBugs" was trending on Twitter yesterday after Trump floated the idea of hosting next year's G7 meeting at the hotel. (Washington Post / Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/27/president-trump-tweet-doral-florida-hotel-resort-bed-bugs-1475911

2017: Trump Doral settles lawsuit over biting bedbugs. (Miami Herald)

https://www.miamiherald.com/entertainment/ent-columns-blogs/jose-lambiet/article129651494.html

Trump called Baltimore "rat and rodent infested" four months after he tried ending the primary funding source for the city's public housing rat-elimination program. The Community Development Block Grant program funded $22 million worth of improvements in Baltimore last year and ensures "decent affordable housing," after-school programs to low-income children, and assistance on closing costs to purchase homes. (Baltimore Sun)

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-rat-budget-trump-20190826-t6oay6qtqzexbefumapeyqp2hq-story.html

📌 Day 921: Trump called Elijah Cummings a "brutal bully" and his Baltimore-based district a "disgusting, rat and rodent infested mess" that "is considered the worst run and most dangerous anywhere in the United States. No human being would want to live there." Trump also called Cummings, a black civil rights icon, a "racist." Trump's tweets appeared to be in response to a Fox & Friends segment on the same topic that ran earlier in the day, which included images of rundown and neglected apartment buildings in Baltimore. As chairman of the House Oversight and Reform Committee, Cummings has initiated most of the investigations into the Trump administration. Last week, Cummings was authorized to subpoena work-related text and emails by White House officials, including Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner. Trump called Cummings' "radical 'oversight' […] a joke!" (Baltimore Sun / New York Times / Washington Post / Washington Post / The Hill)

https://www.baltimoresun.com/politics/bs-md-pol-cummings-trump-20190727-chty2yovtvfzfcjkeaui7wm5zi-story.html

6/ Trump said he refuses to jeopardize the wealth of the U.S. over climate "dreams" and "windmills" after skipping a G7 session on climate change. The Trump administration has rolled back several U.S. environmental protection policies put in place by the Obama administration, including weakening the Endangered Species Act. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g7-summit-trump-climatechange-idUSKCN1VG1RU

7/ Farmers are losing patience with Trump's trade war with China and a growing number suggest it will not take much more to lose their vote. "We're not starting to do great again," said the president of the Minnesota Corn Growers Association. "Things are going downhill and downhill quickly." American agricultural exports to China were $24 billion in 2014, but fell to $9.1 billion last year. Exports of farm products to China fell by another $1.3 billion in the first half of this year. Farm bankruptcy filings this year through June are up 13% from 2018 and loan delinquency rates are also on the rise. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/27/us/politics/trump-farmers-china-trade.html

China's foreign ministry said it hopes the U.S. can create the conditions for additional trade talks between the world's two largest economies. The ministry also reiterated that it had no knowledge of any recent phone call between the U.S. and China, as members of the Trump administration claimed. (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-idUSKCN1VH0MM

poll/ Trump's net approval rating has dropped in every key battleground state since January 2017. (Axios / Morning Consult)

https://www.axios.com/trump-approval-rating-swing-battleground-states-d6ffffe7-07e2-4398-90d6-14c1f97bf62c.html

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#288789: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:03:05 PM

If I remember correctly UBI is still a pretty unpopular policy across the board.

Either way, even if Yang were more popular for his endorsement to mean something I'm pretty sure him and Bernie are too ideologically opposed for that.

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#288790: Aug 27th 2019 at 5:57:49 PM

What he was doing is trying to cast shade on Warren's progressive credentials by tying her to "Corporate" Democratic people.

I interpreted it as him casting shade on the 'corporate' Democrats by pointing out that they're all going over to someone who basically has 90% the same policies as him, because all they care about is that she's not him.

(I'm not approving of that, by the way)

Edited by Robrecht on Aug 27th 2019 at 2:58:10 PM

Angry gets shit done.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#288791: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:04:23 PM

I mean, that's just Democrats supporting an actual Democrat with actual policy, in my eyes.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#288792: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:05:14 PM

I swear this is an old story, or has this just happened a second time? Because my memory has Bernie later trying to dodge blame for the entire thing by saying a staffer wrote the tweet and it being reported that he’s not happy about his staff going after Warren.

The big issue with the approach that gives Bernie’s campaign the benefit of the doubt is that it then raises the question of, if it’s not policy what it is that establishment democrats like about Warren but not him? Unless one automatically assumes that anything establishment figures like has to be bad (which I suspect some people do) the answer to that question matters.

For the record I suspect that the answer is that Bernie has a serious ego problem and doesn’t play well with others, Warren knows how to be part of a team and isn’t on an ego-trip.

That’s without touching the many other areas I think Warren outdoes Sanders (proper policy planning, better foreign relations focus, campaign organisation, avoiding foot-in-mouth, caring about others, not yet being ready to set the entire building on fire).

Edited by Silasw on Aug 27th 2019 at 1:07:09 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288793: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:06:59 PM

I swear this is an old story, or has this just happened a second time? Because my memory has Bernie later trying to dodge blame for the entire thing by saying a staffer wrote the tweet and it being reported that he’s not happy about his staff going after Warren.

You're correct, this is an old story.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 27th 2019 at 6:07:59 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#288794: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:17:02 PM

I mean, it could just come down to the fact that Sander's considers himself a Socialist, while Warren is explicitly doesn't.

I know that seems like a small difference given their similar policies but I imagine that many Democratic leaders still see that as way too much of a liability for him to be elected or might alienate big donors.

Edited by Mio on Aug 27th 2019 at 9:17:25 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288795: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:19:06 PM

I mean, it could just come down to the fact that Sander's considers himself a Socialist, while Warren is explicitly doesn't.

I know that seems like a small difference given their similar policies but I imagine that many Democratic leaders still see that as way too much of a liability for him to be elected or might alienate big donors.

I don't buy it, any big donors alienated by progressive economics would be just as opposed to Warren. It's not like she hasn't been any less opposed to big money and other such forms of plutocratic influences.

Sure she doesn't call herself a socialist but that hardly makes the rest of her policies any less concerning to Wall Street and their ilk.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#288796: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:25:05 PM

I've found myself wondering if Warren identifying as a capitalist isn't a variant of Not Using the "Z" Word, or Socialism as used by the left is suffering from a bit of You Keep Using That Word.

i'm tired, my friend
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288797: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:26:39 PM

It could be, or she's a sincere social democrat and thinks that capitalism can be humanized.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TheRoguePenguin Since: Jul, 2009
#288798: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:29:06 PM

I'd imagine it's at least somewhat a political calculation, likely to make her ideas more palatable.

[up][up][up]You have to consider "the lesser of two evils" there. I'm sure they'd prefer Biden to win, but I think they can also see Warren and Bernie pulling away and would therefore see Warren as the preferable choice. If you're going to take a hit either way, might as well take the one that seems like it won't hurt as much.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#288799: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:30:16 PM

@ Physical Stamina

I'm thinking it's a bit of both.

Warren seems savvy enough to know that a lot of people are still wary about the s-word, and that not saying otherwise would open her up to attack from Republicans, but that socialist types who actually know their shit will understand her policy enough to stick with her on this over people like, say, the CPUSA who exercise more ideological purity. That, and Sanders' platform isn't as socialist as he proclaims himself to have, due to the US's Overton Window being what it is and having affected his own self-perception of things. Aside from his support for cooperatives (which many social democrats and progressive capitalists also endorse) and his questionable endorsement of some leftist strongmen which is motivated more out of socialist solidarity most of his policies aren't much different from the Nordic system.

Edited by AlleyOop on Aug 27th 2019 at 9:34:40 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288800: Aug 27th 2019 at 6:31:38 PM

You have to consider "the lesser of two evils" there. I'm sure they'd prefer Biden to win, but I think they can also see Warren and Bernie pulling away and would therefore see Warren as the preferable choice. If you're going to take a hit either way, might as well take the one that seems like it won't hurt as much.

The problem with this logic is that it assumes that Warren's policies are less costly on the part of the rich then Sander's, which is entirely false.

She seeks to have them pay their fair share just as much as Sanders, there is no reason for any ultra-wealthy plutocrats to consider her the lesser of two evils.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 27th 2019 at 6:36:25 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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