Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines
before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules
when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Closer to Anarchist than Fascist.
The government might as well not exist in her Wild West world.
The GOP claiming Rand and Jesus means they understand and care about neither.
No, that's not what anarchism means.
Anarchism is the opposition of stratified hierarchy, of all types, not just government.
Ayn Rand didn't like state hierarchy but strongly supported corporate hierarchy, she was no anarchist.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangObjectivism is about enshrining selfishness in a literal sense. It is the idea of the sovereign self, raising the individual as supreme over all forms of hierarchy. In its purest form, it rejects not only social organizations but also concepts like self-sacrifice and altruism. Each person takes exactly as much as they can from the world and competes with others to reach the top of the food chain, or rejects it and lives where they don't have to compete. To accept aid from society is a form of weakness.
Objectivism also rejects religion for a variety of reasons, among them its insistence on adherence to dogma and hierarchy. This part is gleefully ignored by right-wingers who claim to espouse the philosophy.
Rand utilized government healthcare later in her life, so she was a hypocrite in addition to being an idiot.
Fascism is about the absolute sovereignty of the State, so it's quite far removed from Objectivism.
Edited by Fighteer on Aug 21st 2019 at 3:48:25 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"@Azure Paladin Ayn Rand herself was staunchly opposed to anarchism, though An Caps have a similar philosophy to her and are often a Misaimed Fandom. Many An Caps criticize Ayn Rand for not going far enough, which says something about how nuts they are. Objectivism preaches, essentially, that the power to take human life is too much for individuals to ever be trusted with, and that therefore a democratic state must be the sole owner of that power.
Leviticus 19:34Yeah, Objetivsm while not facism it kinda does have the same appeal in a way: the exaltation of the individual over others and how good is to being a prick in general, is just Objetivism does not belive in the state while Facism does, it really does.
And it seen Trump is dying in another hill with the greenland stuff, well good for him.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Incidentally, actual Objectivists (at the risk of making a No True Scotsman - I don't count Paul Ryan and other theocrats as Objectivists) tend to hate Trump and the Republican Party. For all their faults, Objectivists hate populism, dominionism, anti-intellectualism and government pork.
Most Objectivists we see are Ryan-type totemists. The ones we don't see often vote straight Democratic (like Leonard Peikoffnote did before he crossed the political Despair Event Horizon in 2008).
Given that someone already used North Korea calling itself democratic, let me just reuse that one:
I would point out that if North Korea can claim itself democratic, then Ayn Rand could claim herself an opponent of fascism and we don't have to believe either of them.
Let me just be blunt and unkind: Objectivism and Nazism are basically the same Mad Lib, except where Hitler and co. wrote 'Germans' under 'Master Race', 'Jews, Slavs Gypsies and the infirm' under 'Parasites on society' and 'The State' under 'What will save us?', Ayn Rand wrote 'Self made (here defined as 'rich, even if through inheritance') individuals', 'The poor, collectivists and altruists' and 'Self-interest'.
To the point that it is said note that if you read Atlas Shrugged by candlelight in a darkened room and you listen carefully, you can faintly hear 'Üntermenschen' echo in the distance every time the word Looters or Parasites is on the page.
Angry gets shit done.Trump, in front of the press on the White House Lawn, literally looked up at the sky in the middle of talking about Chinese Tariffs, and said "I am the Chosen One".
No joke, no exaggeration, he literally said "I am the chosen one" in front of a bunch of reporters.
I think he's going insane.
I wonder if stress from the 2020 election compounded by the high probability of a loss for him will actually get him to snap. It wouldn’t even come close to making up for all the damage he’s done, but at least it’d be a small silver lining.
My musician pageI’d prefer he didn’t, Trump is dangerous enough as is, if he snaps we might get some of the nightmare scenario stuff like him ordering (via twitter) concentration camps guards to start mass executions.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranYeah, if he legit goes insane, he might order a lot of insane stuff before he's taken out for discapicity.
Watch me destroying my countryYeah, let hope he dosent go all Aerys in your asses.
"you read Atlas Shrugged by candlelight in a darkened room and you listen carefully, you can faintly hear 'Üntermenschen' echo in the distance every time the word Looters or Parasites is on the page."
Oh I know, Objetivism is not facism in deeds even if kinda does in feelling, is like the hippy version of facism "Instead giving power to the state to kill the underservering, let just retire to our socipathic comune and let hope all them die out on their own.
And yes, sociopathic comuunity sound like a good name of a death metal album.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Ayn Rand was a free market capitalist who believed the government was an inherently negative force.
Closer to Anarchist than Fascist.
The government might as well not exist in her Wild West world.
The GOP claiming Rand and Jesus means they understand and care about neither.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 21st 2019 at 12:14:33 PM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.