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GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#288201: Aug 20th 2019 at 8:54:42 AM

The problem with people wanting to get back to "normal" is that they'd be denying that the "normal" state of affairs led to reactionaries like Trump in the first place. We need better than "normal".

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#288202: Aug 20th 2019 at 8:56:29 AM

Should Biden be elected, I’ll hope for the best results in the less prominent positions while greatly worrying about what will come the next presidential term.

My musician page
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#288203: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:01:16 AM

I think Biden would be overwhelmed facing the problems Trump has created and it would swing straight back to the Republicans once again,who just make things worse and so on

Basically,the Republicans make a mess knowing the Democrats won't be able to instantly fix it so they can accuse them of inaction and thereby get elected on the grounds of looking they can do something,and blaming the Democrats for causing the problems never mind that the problems were their doing in the first place!

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#288204: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:08:46 AM

I’m not entirely sure that Biden is even aware of all the problems, especially cultural ones, Trump made or made worse, let alone planning to fix them.

My musician page
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288205: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:13:34 AM

This. Democrats aren’t immune to racism. See: Joe Biden’s constant defense of his crime bill and regular racist gaffes, liberals who took ages to support BLM because they thought it was an overreaction, etc.

No one has claimed that they are.

Just that calling them a racist party is of highly questionable use.

We're in a racist society, so there is no major party that is 100% free of racism. But Democrats are the ones who recognize systemic racism and support fighting it, the only point of contention is how far we should go.

There is no useful definition of "racist party" that covers the Democrats.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 20th 2019 at 9:20:05 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#288206: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:17:28 AM

Quick WTF Just Happened Today preview:

The White House is mounting an effort to prevent additional states from joining a pact with California and four automakers to oppose Trump's rollback of auto emissions standards. Representatives from Toyota, Fiat, Chrysler, and General Motors were summoned to the White House last month, where they were pressed by a Trump adviser to stand by Trump's rollbacks. Now, Mercedez-Benz is preparing to join the California agreement. Trump is reportedly "enraged" by the pact, and has demanded that his staffers speed up their efforts to complete his own plan, which is directly at odds with the interests of many automakers. Together, the five automakers — and possibly a sixth to come — account for more than 40% of all cars sold in the United States. (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/climate/trump-auto-emissions-rollback-disarray.html


Also:

Exclusive: Fifth NRA board member resigns amid string of recent defections – NRA board member Richard Childress, a former NASCAR driver and the owner of a self-titled car racing enterprise, submitted his resignation to the board on Monday, according to a copy of the letter obtained by Newsweek.

https://www.newsweek.com/nra-fifth-board-member-resigns-richard-childress-1455195

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 20th 2019 at 10:23:53 AM

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#288207: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:23:16 AM

It's a really odd position that Trump's taking here- it's not pro-big business, as the big businesses are the ones he's taking a direct stance against. Instead, it's a pro-pollution position. Like, it seems he assumed that if took away the regulations, their natural greed would lead to them polluting more, but that didn't happen and now he's angry about that.

Less climate change denier and more climate change advocate, y'know? And that's odd to me.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#288208: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:25:41 AM

It makes sense if you think of Trump as ideologically aligned with the "coal roller" mindset: the people who pollute not because it's economically advantageous but because they see it as giving the middle finger to the environmentalism movement.

Most of the people he's hired to positions of economic influence in his government are not part of the auto or manufacturing industries, but directly beholden to Big Oil, which alone benefits from cars being less fuel-efficient.

I saw an analysis of the phenomenon in a recent video about why electrification of the auto industry is so bitterly resisted by those same interests. Every day that the replacement of internal combustion vehicles is delayed is something like $1.5 billion in their pockets. Of course they'll do everything they can to push back.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 20th 2019 at 12:29:36 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#288209: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:29:53 AM

[up] It's also the Reactionary/Traditionalist Mindset: "Change is bad, no matter what it is. Our cars have always worked for us, regardless of how polluting or costly they are, changing them would be bad".

I do like at the end though that the aides said that Trump was so furious that he was willing to stick with the Obama Regulations but remove California's ability to do it themselves just to spite California and the 4 Car makers who've sided with them. Really shows how much of a man Trump is.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#288210: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:32:00 AM

Could California potentially mount a 10th Amendment challenge to such a move?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#288211: Aug 20th 2019 at 9:59:08 AM

It's a really odd position that Trump's taking here- it's not pro-big business, as the big businesses are the ones he's taking a direct stance against. Instead, it's a pro-pollution position. Like, it seems he assumed that if took away the regulations, their natural greed would lead to them polluting more, but that didn't happen and now he's angry about that. Less climate change denier and more climate change advocate, y'know? And that's odd to me.
Also, Trump is an authoritarian. What he says, goes. So when automakers go against his plans, no matter how horrible and poorly-thought-out they are, he takes deep personal offense. "How dare they! I am not to be questioned or ignored! Trump SMASH!"

Edited by speedyboris on Aug 20th 2019 at 10:00:20 AM

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#288212: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:09:46 AM

Castro has qualified for the next debate. We have a total of ten candidates now.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#288213: Aug 20th 2019 at 10:41:15 AM

Biden's not going anywhere. His base is too large, too dedicated, and too desperate just to get rid of Trump. He's the Drake of Democratic presidential candidates; he just has too much pull for any slip-up to stick or loss of credibility to be permanent.

That's not even getting into how the only people giving him grief over these gaffes are the only people who've already decided not to vote for him.

i'm tired, my friend
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#288214: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:26:22 AM

A number of polls have been putting Warren in second place. Interesting thing that 538 pointed out, her support is roughly half Clinton voters and half Sanders voters from the last primary.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288215: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:26:26 AM

[up][up]It depends on what you mean by "not going anywhere"?

Is he going to totally fall from grace and be obliterated? Sadly not.

But that doesn't mean that he can't lose.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 20th 2019 at 11:27:29 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#288216: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:34:51 AM

Honestly, I still don't have the slightest idea what kind of politics Biden will be doing.

Literally every time he tried to debate with somebody or advertise himself, he might as well have said "Trump bad, me good, give me your vote!"

That man is nothing but empty blunder.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#288217: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:42:16 AM

Biden's whole shtick is that he's everybody's grandpa. He's a cheerful, amiable guy whom you could have over to your home and never worry about a raised voice or an unkind word. He may fumble from time to time in speaking what he means, but that just makes him lovable. He's so sincere that sometimes he says the wrong thing without meaning to, but he has everyone's best interests at heart.

This is what we are supposed to see. He wins by never taking an extreme position that might turn anyone off, deftly refusing to commit to any specific course of action so that he can never be accused of breaking a promise. He's like that salesman that all the other staff hate because he gets the most commissions just by being nice and folksy even though he's not technically proficient.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 20th 2019 at 2:48:00 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#288218: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:47:26 AM

If Biden wins the nomination, that just increases Trump's re-election chances.

It'll be Hillary all over again. God help us

Edited by MrHellboy on Aug 20th 2019 at 1:48:26 PM

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#288219: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:48:20 AM

I wouldn't say so, and that's kind of the kicker. Biden's polling more than well enough to win the general election, at least for now. My concern is that the general would come down to a battle of personalities without any real policy substance, and that's a battle that Trump can win.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#288220: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:50:10 AM

That's pretty much what I meant. You just put it more clearly than I could have, so thank you

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#288221: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:52:03 AM

I've been saying that since like forever, but people just brushed me off^^

Biden running would be the worst possible thing in terms of Trump possibly winning again, I totally agree on that.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#288222: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:54:08 AM

I don't know, I know a lot of people who feel like they got burned by Trump who would vote for Biden.

Moderates do exist and bluntly they make up a pretty huge portion of the electorate.

Something this thread seems to forget is that the majority of Americans are not leftists.

Edited by LeGarcon on Aug 20th 2019 at 2:55:25 PM

Oh really when?
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#288223: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:56:16 AM

A good half of the US citizens don't even vote period.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
MrHellboy The Shadow from A world of my own Since: Dec, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Shadow
#288224: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:59:37 AM

I didn't vote in the last election, but it was more due to social anxiety than anything. I will not make that mistake again. Come hell or high water, I am voting in every single election.

The hardest thing in this world is to live in it.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#288225: Aug 20th 2019 at 11:59:56 AM

I don't think we have to worry too much about "extreme leftism" turning off voters. If you're committed to voting for Trump, nothing Biden says is going to persuade you, and if you aren't, the worst that'll happen with a more progressive candidate is that you'll stay home and your vote will be traded for someone farther left who wouldn't vote for Biden.

At this point, if you think that universal healthcare is an extreme position, you are probably lost. If you have genuine concerns about the mechanics of how it would be implemented and/or paid for, then that makes you a rational voter, and it's possible to reach you with rational arguments.

What worries me more than anything is how desperately the media will reach to portray the eventual Democratic candidate as "extremist" in an effort to maintain the perception that the election is close and drive up ratings thereby.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 20th 2019 at 3:01:28 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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