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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#288051: Aug 17th 2019 at 10:21:29 AM

Either that or they are trying to gaslight each other too. Convince themselves of the lie.

Disgusted, but not surprised
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#288052: Aug 17th 2019 at 10:45:46 AM

Watching this video that tackles the rather weird question of "Is the United States a country?", and I want to verify something. In 4:02-4:26, it claims that even if something is illegal under US federal law, a state can pass a law that makes that thing legal, and cites marijuana as an example (federally illegal, but has been declared legal by certain states). Is this true?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#288053: Aug 17th 2019 at 10:49:11 AM

Sort of? It's complicated.

Marijuana has a questionable legality here in Colorado for this exact reason. In essence, state law legalizes its growth and usage, but that won't stop federal cops from arresting you. But dudes growing pot is a bit outside of federal jurisdiction, so you generally don't have feds busting down weed shops anyway; they have more important things to do.

So it's more like marijuana is technically illegal but Colorado has voted not to enforce that law and the federal government has bigger fish to fry than trying to make us. Whether or not a law is supposed to be subject to state veto, if it relies on state and local cops to enforce, it effectively is.

Not for lack of trying, mind. Jeff Sessions wanted to crack down on weed states. It was a hot-button issue for him, but I don't think that ever actually went anywhere. And he's gone now.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Aug 17th 2019 at 11:51:51 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#288054: Aug 17th 2019 at 11:04:44 AM

Yeah, in the state of Oregon (where I live), Pot's legal at the state level, but not at the federal level. The feds primarily rely on the states enforcing their own laws against weed, so if they aren't, then not much gets enforced.

It should be noted though, that if the federal government does consider something a big enough deal, it in practice overrides any state rulings. For example, de jure and overt segregation is technically still the law in some states. However, the feds have declared this form of segregation illegal, and is willing to provide the firepower to back it up, making enforcing segregation laws rather difficult. To be fair, it should be noted that in some cases the primary reason segregation hasn't been taken off the books at the state level is because it's not necessary to do so and wouldn't accomplish much.

Leviticus 19:34
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#288055: Aug 17th 2019 at 11:38:48 AM

I'm curious on opinions here, because, while the source is Anthony Scaramucci, so I'm not inclined to call it reliable, this article covers a possibility I'm not sure anyone has seriously considered and could even be a Spanner in the Works if correct.

Scaramucci Predicts Exact Month Trump Will Abandon 2020 Race – The former White House communications director also turned to "Game of Thrones" to explain why Trump should be primaried

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d57aeb8e4b0d8840ff38c79

Anthony Scaramucci thinks he knows when Donald Trump will decide not to run for president again.

And, according to “The Mooch,” it’s only seven months away.

“He’s gonna drop out of the race because it’s gonna become very clear. Okay, it’ll be March of 2020. He’ll likely drop out by March of 2020. It’s gonna become very clear that it’s impossible for him to win,” the former (short-lived) White House communications director said in an interview with Vanity Fair published Friday.

“And is this the kind of guy that’s gonna want to be that humiliated and lose as a sitting president?” asked Scaramucci, who in recent weeks has turned on and feuded with his former boss, likening him to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster.

“He’s got the self-worth in terms of his self-esteem of a small pigeon. It’s a very small pigeon. Okay,” Scaramucci continued about Trump. “And so you think this guy’s gonna look at those poll numbers and say — he’s not gonna be able to handle that humiliation.”

What are the odds of Trump opting to just not run in the end?

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 17th 2019 at 12:40:58 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#288056: Aug 17th 2019 at 11:41:44 AM

Why are we listening to Anthony Scaramucci of all people again?

Disgusted, but not surprised
NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#288057: Aug 17th 2019 at 11:46:25 AM

HOW IS HIS ITALIAN ACCENT THAT THICK?

Okay nitpick over.

I think we should take what he says with a charitably said grain of salt. That being said, he does speak to a trend with Donald Trump - the minute things go awry, he leaves and burns all bridges.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#288058: Aug 17th 2019 at 11:55:48 AM

Zero, those are the chances

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 17th 2019 at 2:56:17 PM

i'm tired, my friend
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#288059: Aug 17th 2019 at 12:17:30 PM

I could see a scenario in which Trump ends his run, the man has no impulse control after all.

But it is not a likely scenario, and that's putting it lightly.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#288060: Aug 17th 2019 at 12:55:18 PM

I do think there's a small part of Trump that regrets running for president*. However, there's no chance he will drop out.

The thing you have to keep in mind with Trump is that he's very protective of his ego. If he drops out, he'd basically be admitting that he's a subpar president. At least that's how he'd view it, though he'd probably be right-there just isn't much of a way around it. The most self-congratulating way he could put it is "I believe that I can do more good for this nation as a private citizen, where I won't be opposed by liberals all the time", but even that means "ok, liberals, you win".

By contrast, the best thing from his perspective would be to run and lose. He'll probably play the part of a graceful loser at first, then say something about how it proves Russia isn't helping him. Then, when he's comfortably out of office, write a book and tweet about how he was cheated out of his second term.

Alternatively, if he wins, that's only four more years (which, actually isn't that long a period of time. His term went by fast for me), then retire. At which point, he can claim to have been a successful president because for all their whining, the liberals didn't stop him from getting re-elected.

  • Or, to be more accurate, I think Trump hates the job but loves the limelight. He's happy that he won the Presidency, and loves getting attention from his position of power, he just hates actually doing Presidential things.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Aug 17th 2019 at 12:57:29 PM

Leviticus 19:34
Imca (Veteran)
#288061: Aug 17th 2019 at 2:52:27 PM

I have always heard the reason that the feds don't bust down the doors of pot dispenseries in the states that allow it isn't so much "they have better things to do then enforce it", so much as that the instant they do that case is going straight to the supreme court, and no one wants to deal with the possible ramifications of that case... its too much of a gamble on both the state and federal end of the things, creating basically a Mexican Standoff situation.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#288062: Aug 17th 2019 at 3:11:23 PM

pot sellers...saved by the Sword of Damocles.

In other news, Republicans in the Senate continue to let their antiproletariat biases "shine" through.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#288063: Aug 17th 2019 at 3:19:57 PM

Republican Senators are the scum of the USA. Not really much to add to that.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#288064: Aug 17th 2019 at 4:01:45 PM

People were saying that Trump would drop out of the 2016 race after winning the Republican nominee and look what happened.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#288065: Aug 17th 2019 at 4:45:20 PM

Watching this video that tackles the rather weird question of "Is the United States a country?", and I want to verify something. In 4:02-4:26, it claims that even if something is illegal under US federal law, a state can pass a law that makes that thing legal, and cites marijuana as an example (federally illegal, but has been declared legal by certain states). Is this true?

It is true. State law and Federal law are distinct.

For the video's overall question, we absolutely are a country, the states having autonomy doesn't make the US less of a country.

Countryhood is defined by a common identity, defacto with dejure sovereignty, and territorial integrity. The US has all of that, just because we're a Federal system with all of the associated local rights doesn't make that less true.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Aug 17th 2019 at 4:49:32 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#288066: Aug 17th 2019 at 5:22:24 PM

Really, Mooch? He's not dropping out. His ego and threat of legal action against him as a private citizen won't let him.

Edited by speedyboris on Aug 17th 2019 at 5:23:54 AM

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#288067: Aug 17th 2019 at 5:34:44 PM

I heard news in Portland about antifa groups going to protest against far-right groups/individuals going there.

Trump mentions in a tweet that he wants to declare antifa as a terrorist group.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#288068: Aug 17th 2019 at 5:39:41 PM

But some of them are white!

Ugh.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#288069: Aug 17th 2019 at 5:55:57 PM

I don't think THE MOOCH, record-holder for quickest firing from the Trump Administration, should really be considered a political expert.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#288070: Aug 17th 2019 at 6:40:15 PM

On the flip side, if it does become overwhelmingly clear that Trump will not be able to win reelection in 2020, I would absolutely expect Trump to not run rather than run and lose. The question isn't whether or not Trump would quit rather than lose, it's whether he can become convinced that he'll lose when it's still early enough for him to refuse to run.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#288071: Aug 17th 2019 at 6:46:56 PM

Both of those things are equally unlikely.

i'm tired, my friend
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#288072: Aug 17th 2019 at 7:34:59 PM

In Trump's mind, there are only two possible outcomes.

  1. Trump wins the election.
  2. Trump wins the election, but the Clinton-Obama Illuminati conspires with the illegal immigrants to rig the election and make it look like he loses.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#288073: Aug 17th 2019 at 8:03:12 PM

For the video's overall question, we absolutely are a country, the states having autonomy doesn't make the US less of a country.

Countryhood is defined by a common identity, defacto with dejure sovereignty, and territorial integrity. The US has all of that, just because we're a Federal system with all of the associated local rights doesn't make that less true.

See, the problem with your argument is that the video in question names each of the definition elements that you mentioned and shows how technically speaking, none of them apply in the case of the USA.

  1. Common identity: Many people in the USA identify more closely with their states than with the whole nation. And that's without factoring in the existing secessionist movements.

  2. Sovereignty: Not only do the states get away with more defiance of federal law than people usually expect, the US has the unique phenomenon of recognizing the sovereignty of Native American tribes within the boundaries of their reservations, to the point that gambling can be perfectly legal within such a reservation even if the state it's fully contained within criminalizes it, and the tribes can and have conducted foreign relations with other countries as representatives of themselves and not of the USA.

  3. Territorial integrity: Well, consider the above-mentioned situation with the Native American reservations. The video includes a nice map that illustrates what the USA would look like if you treated the reservations as actual countries (since they arguably are already so de facto).

Ultimately, though, the video doesn't really say that the USA isn't a country, just that it challenges the traditional notion of what a "country" is in the minds of most people.

Edited by MarqFJA on Aug 17th 2019 at 6:06:24 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#288074: Aug 17th 2019 at 8:23:03 PM

[up] Many countries have regional cultural variations that locals identify strongly with. That doesn’t automatically exclude a national culture, which US definitely has. You’re also somewhat overstating the local sovereignty of states and reservations, reservations are considered “dependent nations” and are still subject to federal authority, and while states do have a great deal of authority locally said authority ends pretty specifically where the federal government starts.

It seems like what’s going on here is more a question of how exactly you define a state. You can create a working definition of a state that excludes the US, but there’s no precise definition of a state. For example, the most common definitions of a state usually describe it as a permanent population in a defined territory with a centralized government that holds legitimate authority and has the capacity to enter relations with other states. That definition neatly includes the US.

They should have sent a poet.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#288075: Aug 17th 2019 at 9:00:02 PM

White House Mulled Ways to Block Migrant Children From Schools

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-17/white-house-mulled-ways-to-block-migrant-children-from-schools

Idea was ultimately abandoned amid questions over legality
1982 case says can’t deny education on immigration status

Some top aides to President Donald Trump sought for months for a way to give states the power to block undocumented immigrant children from enrolling in public schools — all part of the administration’s efforts to stem illegal crossings at the southern U.S. border.

Trump senior adviser Stephen Miller had been a driving force behind the effort as early as 2017, pressing cabinet officials and members of the White House Domestic Policy Council repeatedly to devise a way to limit enrollment, according to several people familiar with the matter. The push was part of a menu of ideas on immigration that could be carried out without congressional approval.

Ultimately, they abandoned the idea after being told repeatedly that any such effort ran afoul of a 1982 Supreme Court case guaranteeing access to public schools. But the consideration of denying hundreds of thousands of children access to education illustrates the breadth of the White House’s push to crack down on undocumented immigrants.

The strategy echoed the aim of a new rule the administration announced earlier this week that could block immigrants from becoming legal permanent residents if they’ve used government benefits. Any immigrant who had used Medicaid, public housing assistance or food stamps for more than 12 months over a 36-month period can be denied permanent resident status under the new rule.

The so-called public charge rule has sparked outrage among Democrats, who say it’s cruel. They have criticized Trump on a range of immigration policies, including a plan he announced last month to force Central American migrants to file for asylum in Guatemala instead of the U.S., a measure advocacy groups said would put their lives at risk. The debate over immigration is all but certain to play a central role in the 2020 elections.

A senior administration official, who requested anonymity when asked to comment on the story, dismissed accounts of Miller’s initiative as gossip from disgruntled bureaucrats but declined to identify any specific inaccuracy. The official also said undocumented immigrants placed an enormous strain on social services, including school districts.

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 17th 2019 at 10:00:56 AM


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