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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#287926: Aug 16th 2019 at 8:43:21 AM
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#287927: Aug 16th 2019 at 8:45:23 AM

Since Stacy Abrams was mentioned I suppose it's worth mentioning that she did say a few days ago that she is open to being the VP to whoever becomes the nominee.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#287928: Aug 16th 2019 at 8:45:35 AM

Trump did appear to be the more moderate candidate in 2016. That's a bit a lot of people are missing out.

Also, since this is a point that people keep missing as well, an election is not just about turning out your base but also about not turning out the other side's base.

I am not keen on Biden but the problem is that most of the things that we cite in opposition to him are either shared by other Democrats or just words. There is much bigger fish to fry.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#287929: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:00:50 AM

Trump did appear to be the more moderate candidate in 2016.

Compared to who, David Duke???? My brain literally just stopped for a moment out of sheer disbelief. He STARTED his campaign with calling Mexicans rapists, for God’s sake!!

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287930: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:01:57 AM

He meant before that obviously

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#287931: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:02:06 AM

Are you calling him moderate compared to the rest of the GOP primary (questionable, there were a few nutters in the mix), or Clinton?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#287932: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:06:47 AM

Or compared to Pence?

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#287933: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:07:11 AM

There were polls that found voters thought Trump was more moderate than Hillary. This was most likely a result of misinformation, but I expect that to be in full force in the 2020 election as well. Most American are stupid and selfish, so they'll pick Trump over a progressive candidate any day of the week.

I was reading the comments section of a New York Times article on this, and it was full of of older Democrats railing against the idea of "free college". "free healthcare", and "open borders". Make no mistake, America is so afraid of change they'll gladly elect a racist hatemonger over anything that so much as has a whiff of "socialism" about it.

GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#287934: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:08:19 AM

There were polls that found voters thought Trump was more moderate than Hillary.

How does that compute with his "burn the system down" base?

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287935: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:08:50 AM

> and it was full of of older Democrats

or Russian shills posing as democrats,I don't generally trust comment sections on the internet

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#287936: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:22:29 AM

^^Because people don't judge politicians by their base.

Besides, "moderate" also includes economic policies and Trump did talk about helping workers and all that. Of course later he adopted the classic Republican playbook and that's why he no longer is seen as a moderate, but that's hindsight. Here is a piece where the Trump is moderate thing is explained a bit more.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#287937: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:25:44 AM

'Help the industrial/working class' has been Republican dogwhistling since the Reagan era.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#287938: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:35:18 AM

For what, racism?

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#287939: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:36:17 AM

Racism, union busting, cutting services...

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#287940: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:44:38 AM

Hmm, ok. I was thinking more about it being a bait and switch...

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#287941: Aug 16th 2019 at 9:55:21 AM

Well, it's both race-baiting and a bait-and-switch, since neither Trump nor any other GOP candidate has any intention of actually doing anything to help the working class. Note as evidence Trump's "eat the poor" tax cuts, the only significant piece of legislation that his government has passed.

The idea that he is a moderate is just smoke and mirrors pushed by the centrist media.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 16th 2019 at 12:55:51 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#287942: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:02:23 AM

Trump is far right. This is not open for debate.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#287943: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:03:39 AM

Basically, "help the working class" for Republicans means "help the white workers who live in rural towns and are the backbone of America, and they deserve everything, unlike those elitist snobs who live in cities, the Jews who control the economy, the underhanded black people who steal everything they have, and the illegal Mexican immigrants who do no work and take all the government's resources.

Man, that physically disgusted me to even write out, ew, I want to take a shower.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#287944: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:07:09 AM

The idea that he is a moderate is just smoke and mirrors pushed by the centrist media.

The weirdest take I've seen are people on the left - even self-proclaimed socialists - saying that Trump was much less bad than Clinton because "he's gonna destroy the American Empire".

So yeah, spite and misguided "anti-imperialism" turns people into morons, apparently.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Ludlow Since: Apr, 2013
#287945: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:07:48 AM

No one is saying that Trump is moderate, just that, to most voters in 2016, he appeared more moderate than Hillary Clinton, and that unfortunately cost Democrats the election.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#287946: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:09:25 AM

Granted, Republicans think Clinton is a raging socialist so anyone looks moderate compared to her in their minds.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287947: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:27:01 AM

The nasty truth is that politics doesn’t run on a single left-right axis, it doesn’t even run on two axis making a square.

Trump was portrayed as moderate because he claimed to want infrastructure spending, government supported healthcare and some level of gun control.

Trump got called moderate because he pretended to break with fiscal conservatism.

As for the risk without Biden, that again assumes a binary left-right world, it’s far from that simple, Trump showed that there are a segment of voters (the Obama-Trump voters) who can be motivated by either promises of economic improvement or by racism.

Being a ‘moderate’ doesn’t mean a person is fiscally conservative, it might mean they’re a non-rich racist, it might mean they’re a evangelical black person, it might mean they’re a libertarian.

Clinton didn’t just lose the ‘moderate’ vote, she lost a lot of voters from across the spectrum. Picking up any one group may well be enough for 2020.

Democrats need someone who can win, but current polling has all of the 4 defeating Trump in 2020, so Biden isn’t a keystone candidate.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#287948: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:30:19 AM

The weirdest take I've seen are people on the left - even self-proclaimed socialists - saying that Trump was much less bad than Clinton because "he's gonna destroy the American Empire".

THEY were accelerationists. They definitely thought Trump was the worst option, but their plan was to deliberately choose the worst option with the expectation that it would reach some kind of critical mass of bad and implode on itself, generating a counter-movement that would drag the USA left. It was a dumb long game strategy that posited that Clinton, as the status quo option, was somehow the greater of two evils in the long term.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
#287949: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:36:02 AM

[up][up] I think it's a bit much to accuse Obama -> Trump voters of being racist.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287950: Aug 16th 2019 at 10:39:32 AM

Why? You think racists can’t vote for a black man when it’s in their (blindingly obvious) economic self-interest to do so?

No voter is truly a single issue voter, they can be motivated by a failing economy one election and by racism another.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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