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Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#287401: Aug 11th 2019 at 10:33:24 AM

As mentioned, Epstein said his previous suicide attempt was someone attacking him. Testimony from the victim is evidence.

There were also multiple procedure violations in MCC on the night he died, according to the NYT, including the suspension of half-hour checks and putting him in solitary confinement less than two weeks after he'd been on suicide watch.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#287402: Aug 11th 2019 at 10:36:22 AM

As mentioned, Epstein said his previous suicide attempt was someone attacking him.Testimony from the victim is evidence.

Incredibly unreliable evidence, if the best you've got is a sexual predator who has every reason to lie then your hypothesis is ridiculously weak.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287403: Aug 11th 2019 at 10:42:19 AM

Still its evidence even if you think the witness is a liar,which exactly what the perpetrator would want if hypothetically they did murder him as they'd rely on mistrust of testmany would make his 'suicide' all the more plausible

Edited by Ultimatum on Aug 11th 2019 at 5:43:37 PM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287404: Aug 11th 2019 at 10:49:23 AM

you’re suggesting the rich and powerful have been guiding the prison system over the years for the sole purpose of eliminating their enemies via random violence brought about by the incompetence they’ve deliberately induced?

Nope, that’s not what I’m suggesting. It’s far from the sole reason they’ve built a prison system that operates that way, but I think there’s a serious possibility that it’s a reason.

I see it like this,if he was murdered they'll find the culprit sooner then you think,especially if they thought turning off security cameras and waiting till he he was off suicide watch meant they could work unseen

I’d argue that taking him off suicide watch knowing what he’d do is still morally murder even if it’s not legally, it’s just a murder where the victims is a co-conspirator.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CustardAndPie Oh Captain!~ from in a tank 'bout to steal yo girl Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Remembering what Mama said
Oh Captain!~
#287405: Aug 11th 2019 at 10:54:27 AM

I just read a comment from someone claiming Trump cut Epstein off years ago, so therefore he's not a pedo and has nothing to do with the Epstein case.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Man, Trump supporters are blind as fuck. They only focus on the fact that Bill Clinton was involved, but apparently their God Emperor [hurl] totally wasn't buddy-buddy with him and vocally supported him after Epstein got exposed.

Hey how you doing well I'm doing just fine I lied I'm dying inside
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#287406: Aug 11th 2019 at 10:57:16 AM

More to add to my belief that the alt-right are some kind of Hive Mind.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
CustardAndPie Oh Captain!~ from in a tank 'bout to steal yo girl Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Remembering what Mama said
Oh Captain!~
#287407: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:02:16 AM

[up]Are you implying it wasn't always a Hive Mind? Because I don't know about you, but the alt-right was a Hive Mind from the start.

Hey how you doing well I'm doing just fine I lied I'm dying inside
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287408: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:04:52 AM

lets not kid ourself,that would imply some collective thought,and we know they can't think for themselves

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#287409: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:08:13 AM

The alt right are move less by thinking and more by general moods, that is why hacks like Milo can move them.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#287410: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:15:52 AM

[up][up][up]No. I'm just saying that this is one more piece of evidence of many. I share your belief that it was always this way.

Edited by RainingMetal on Aug 11th 2019 at 11:16:16 AM

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#287411: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:18:59 AM

May I suggest that the Epstein matter be spun off to its own thread so that other stuff can be discussed here as well?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#287412: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:23:01 AM

Or we could stop until concrete information comes out, lest it become the new impeachment.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287413: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:37:12 AM

bingo bongo

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287414: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:45:31 AM

To shift us in a new direction, Trump's latest state-by-state approval rating numbers are out and they're bad for him. How bad? Underwater in Arizona, North Carolina, Florida, Iowa, Ohio, Nebraska and Alaska bad. [1]

Some of those are pretty tight but not all of them, Trump is down 6 points in Ohio and 7 in Arizona, in Iowa he's down 11 points, this isn't even a single data point, Trump was last above -5 in Iowa in June of 2018, he hasn't been positive in the state since April of 2017.

This is especially bad for Republicans if we see strait ticket voting come 2020, as Trump's negative numbers could cost the Republicans senate seats in the states of Arizona, Iowa, North Carolina, while putting the likes of Alaska and Nebraska in the Nat 20 column alongside Texas, Alabama, Kansas, Kentucky and South Carolina.

Edited by Silasw on Aug 11th 2019 at 6:46:15 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#287415: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:47:41 AM

It’s far from the sole reason they’ve built a prison system that operates that way, but I think there’s a serious possibility that it’s a reason.

Not necessarily related to Epstein, but you’re ascribing way too much agency to something like “the whole prison system”. I mean, sure, it’s designed to behave in certain ways, but like any massive bureaucracy it can change over time and behave in ways it was never intended to. The idea that chaotic conditions were specifically developed to eliminate political opponents sort of strains credulity for that very reason, chaotic conditions are more easily attributed to individual malice and incompetence.

They should have sent a poet.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#287416: Aug 11th 2019 at 11:51:59 AM

And if Trump has a hard time holding those states, he will probably be struggling even harder in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc, and he does not have a path to re-election if he loses those.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287417: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:06:27 PM

[up][up] I think that we ascribe to much agency to "the system", it's not a living thinking thing, it's a collection of people who make choices every day. Saying that "the system" did something strikes me as a way for politicians and bureaucrats to abdicate responsibility for their actions.

You can't blame "the system" when you are the system, collective action should mean collective responsibility, not a lack of responsibility.

[up] Yeah he's doing worse in the states he needs to win come 2020, though keep in mind that his approval ratting isn't a perfect map for eventual votes, not everyone votes, not everyone who votes votes based on if they approve of him (people who disapproved of Trump and Clinton went heavily for Trump in 2016) and there's a margin of error to consider.

Still that -8 in Pennsylvania does not look good for Trump.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DingoWalley1 Asgore Adopts Noelle Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Asgore Adopts Noelle
#287418: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:06:53 PM

We should start going all in on Nebraska and Kansas immediately. These are very rural, very agricultural states. If we can keep hammering in that Trump's Trade Wars are causing irreversible harm to farmers and that the Democratic Candidates are all for Free Trade, we might be able to swing these States our way in 2020 (especially after Brownback and Kobach in Kansas; Dunleavy will probably swing Alaska our way). Georgia, Missouri, Utah, Indiana, Texas and North Dakota are also within range of taking, but I wouldn't try to push unless things look good for us next year in these States.

It really sucks that Alabama is the state with the highest approval for Trump. That doesn't bode well for Doug Jones next year.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#287419: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:12:04 PM

[up][up] Exactly. It’s a collection of people making choices, not a single person making choices. Do you think a prison guard goes into work thinking “I’m going to do X Y and Z today to further the chaotic circumstances that benefit the wealthy”? Of course not, he’s just racist or incompetent or what have you.

People can try and influence the system, but like any system it has a degree of malleability outside of direct control.

They should have sent a poet.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287420: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:16:43 PM

[up][up] Jones is on some level just another roll of the dice, he alone might not have great odds, but if enough long shots like him (so Kentucky, South Carolina, Alaska, Kansas, Georgia and Texas) are taken the Dems might be able to pick up one of the seats.

[up] No the guard doesn't know, but I think that at a certain level people certainly should know, the prison's governor for instance really should understand the part they play in a larger system.

That's what management is about, controlling things underneath you via not just direct actions but tiny nudges.

Edited by Silasw on Aug 11th 2019 at 7:19:49 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#287421: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:18:56 PM

@Silasw Yeah, that's what a lot of people tend to forget. There isn't really an "establishment", just a lot of influential people and organizations, much of which don't get along. That's why The Man Is Sticking It to the Man is not necessarily hypocrisy per se, since there's more than one man. In fact, being good at sticking it to the man by definition makes you influential and powerful.

Leviticus 19:34
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#287422: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:26:07 PM

[up][up] You’re still crediting too much individual agency to large systems. I mean, how many prison wardens are there in the US? How many do you think get marching orders from some private corporation or BOP? How many have the specific motive you’re describing? Some want to punish minorities, some want to punish everyone, some simply don’t care. Is every single prison warden getting together and deciding they want prisons to be violent inside?

You can’t credit a system with the same agency an individual has. It’s there, but it’s gradual and messy.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 11th 2019 at 12:27:24 PM

They should have sent a poet.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#287423: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:29:44 PM

Shouldn't this discussion go to the new thread?

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#287424: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:38:27 PM

Kansas resident here. I would be surprised if this place will be able to shift blue for the Presidential election in 2020, I'm still seeing open Trump supporters here in Lawrence (the "blue dot in a sea of red"), as well as general apathy, both on campus and around town. That said the state is shifting back from Brownbackistan, see Laura Kelly and Sharice Davids.

My concern here is more with the Congressional elections: Davids has to defend her seat; of the other three House seats only one has a Democrat candidate at the moment leaving the other two to default to incumbents; and with Pat Roberts declining to run for a sixth term, his Senate seat is a potential shitstorm - Kobach is running, the current president of the state senate, Susan Wagle is running (she passed the "Women's Right to Know Act" here, which **mandates** that women seeking late-term abortions be lied to about fetal development, with claims such as abortion causing breast cancer), and Mike Pompeo is reconsidering his previous decision to not run.

And because its a Presidential election year, I'm hearing basically no word on the street regarding the Congressional elections. But if things don't go completely belly up, I could see this place being a bit more purple by 2024.

Edited by TheAirman on Aug 11th 2019 at 2:39:40 PM

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287425: Aug 11th 2019 at 12:41:53 PM

[up][up]Probably actually the general politics thread, as I think we've moved beyond the specifics of either this one case or the US now. [up]X3 That okay with you?

Edited by Silasw on Aug 11th 2019 at 7:44:01 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

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