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Nov 2023 Mod notice:


There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.

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In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287226: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:29:45 AM

He didn't discharge the weapon tho,he held him gunpoint until the cops showed up

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#287227: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:29:54 AM

By all accounts it was not a planned mass shooting or anything. Just an attention seeking idiot.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287228: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:37:25 AM

Yeah the gun was certainly helpful, but it was helpful because the guy wasn’t a shooter and was just an idiot/asshole.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#287229: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:46:26 AM

>it was helpful because the guy wasn’t a shooter and was just an idiot/asshole.

It would have been helpful if he had been a shooter too. It took about three minutes for police to arrive, going by Dayton numbers, that's about ~45. Assuming that the firefighter decided to intervene, he could do so much more rapidly meaning that there would be fewer deaths.

In the most optimistic situation, the shooter might get a few shots off, but is stopped by the civilian quickly. However, there are also less optimistic possibilities. Things like not even getting a shot off, but getting shot instead. When you decide to intervene in a situation like this, make no bones about it you are volunteering to get shot first. However, even in that case, shots on a volunteer are better then shots on someone who's not. This is true even when the gunman shoots the civilian first because they know that the civilian is carrying. In pretty much every situation though, the civilian intervening leads to equal or fewer casualties even if they themselves get shot by the police when they arrive.

Edited by Soban on Aug 10th 2019 at 8:53:07 AM

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287230: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:49:20 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#287231: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:54:25 AM

Given that I know I'm not trolling, why do you say that?

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287232: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:56:47 AM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
have a listen and have a link to my discord server
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#287233: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:56:54 AM

Any amount of deaths is unacceptable. Any "solution" to mass shootings that leaves even a single person dead is not as good as a true solution to mass shootings that stops them entirely.

The "solution" of "more guns might reduce the number of casualties" is ethically bankrupt because it is both insufficient in stopping shootings entirely and it directly opposes the only actual solution for stopping mass shootings completely.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287234: Aug 10th 2019 at 5:59:53 AM

What it says to me is that Wallmart's security should have tackled him the moment he was spotted entering the building,or at the very least have metal detectors on the doors

He was probably hoping for a Swat team or something

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#287235: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:01:35 AM

Having an untrained civilian with a gun trying to take on an active shooter makes worried that they'd end up increasing the body count by way of accidentally shooting bystanders. And that's assuming there's only one person trying to be a hero—More than that and there's suddenly a lot of confusion about who to target

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#287236: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:03:22 AM

In the most optimistic situation, the shooter might get a few shots off, but is stopped by the civilian quickly. However, there are also less optimistic possibilities. Things like not even getting a shot off, but getting shot instead. When you decide to intervene in a situation like this, make no bones about it you are volunteering to get shot first. However, even in that case, shots on a volunteer are better then shots on someone who's not. This is true even when the gunman shoots the civilian first because they know that the civilian is carrying. In pretty much every situation though, the civilian intervening leads to equal or fewer casualties even if they themselves get shot by the police when they arrive.

Christ, this entire paragraph is horrifying in levels I can't even begin to articulate. From the "it's better that a volunteer gets shot than someone who isn't" to the unsubstantiated claim that civilian interference lowers casualties. Got any numbers, any statistics, any proof to that claim? Because otherwise that's just buying wholesale into the "good guy with a gun" myth, even though it's been proven time and again that an armed crowd won't deter a determined shooter.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287237: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:15:17 AM

Epstein is dead.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#287238: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:18:37 AM

A suicide that is notably the DAY AFTER he names a bunch of famous rich people by name.

But I suppose he did try before...

Am I weird to be conspiratorial here?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 10th 2019 at 6:19:14 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#287239: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:19:24 AM

source?

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#287240: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:20:35 AM

[up]Jeffrey Epstein killed himself in prison, report says

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 10th 2019 at 3:20:45 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#287241: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:21:27 AM

Apparently suicide watch means people watch you commit suicide.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#287242: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:22:31 AM

I'm not sad that he's dead, but now we won't get him to rat out all the other scumbags that he was selling girls to for sex. Justice has not been done here.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 10th 2019 at 9:23:27 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#287243: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:23:36 AM

It’s unclear what the previous incident was, I saw accusations both of an attempted suicide and of him being assaulted by a cell mate.

The BBC are not yet reporting to as a suicide, just that he’s dead.

Even if it was a suicide someone (or several someone’s) let him commit suicide, that person (or persons) need to be held accountable for the death and the loss of information to prosecutors.

Epstein was evidence against a lot of people, allowing his death by letting him commit suicide is nothing short of destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#287244: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:23:43 AM

How convenient for so many people that he got around a suicide watch.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#287245: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:24:02 AM

Guy was a pedophile and sex trafficker, I'll rest easier at night knowing there's one less of those in the world now.

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#287246: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:24:43 AM

Jesus Christ, it almost feels like an episode straight out of Daredevil's Season 1 with how sudden and convenient this was.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#287247: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:25:09 AM

There's about equal amounts of Clinton and Trump photos floating around (and some of Prince Andrew) as possible suspects.

Honestly, all three were implicated.

You could even blame Kevin Spacey but I think that ship sailed.

Or Katie Couric!

(yes, she was a friend of Epstein's)

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 10th 2019 at 6:28:02 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#287248: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:25:43 AM

I do agree, though, that this will make it much harder to nail the rest of his organization.

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#287249: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:26:29 AM

Yeah, I can only imagine how many people would have been directly implicated and/or indicted if he'd sung like a bird. I'm not sorry he's dead, but it's a tragic loss for justice.

Hitokiri in the streets, daishouri in the sheets.
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#287250: Aug 10th 2019 at 6:30:33 AM

Moved gun discussion to gun control thread.


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