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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#286976: Aug 8th 2019 at 3:52:48 PM

If you aren't prepared for a fight, the person who throws the first punch usually gets to be the person throwing the last. Especially when that first punch is drugging and raping you. Or shooting you.

There is nothing wrong with a little caution around the one group of people that the police will demonstrably not protect you from.

Touche. Hence my emphasis on "attempts to". You don't want to look like the bad guy, but some discretion goes a long way.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#286977: Aug 8th 2019 at 3:58:16 PM

@Wisewillow If a person was seriously nervous around someone because they're black, then that person is rightly considered racist. That person would also probably point to similar statistics about violent crimes committed by black people to justify their fear, and would say that they're being called a bigot simply for acknowledging reality. Sure, it might not be institutional racism, but that's only one type of racism.

Leviticus 19:34
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#286978: Aug 8th 2019 at 3:59:31 PM

As a white person, I am baffled to see people claim that acknowledging reality (i.e. we live in a white supremacist society and the vast majority of white people are racist) is in itself racist.

Exactly.

Bigotry is the opiate of the masses, and 45 is one hell of a supplier.

Edited by BearyScary on Aug 8th 2019 at 3:00:38 AM

Do not obey in advance.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#286979: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:03:48 PM

[up][up]

When you control for poverty, violence is the same across races and ethnicities. Fearing Black people are violent is, indeed racist.

It is not racist to acknowledge the obvious, which is that for HUNDREDS of years, more Black people have been brutalized by white people than the reverse. For God’s sake, Emmett Till died because a white woman lied and her family brutally beat him to death, and she never faced a single damn consequence, and the white jury let the murderers off the hook. And he’s just one of many.

There’s been MASSACRES of dozens Black people by white mobs, less than a hundred years ago; there’s been decades of police brutality; sheer self-preservation almost demands that Black people and other people of color don’t trust random white people too much.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:06:27 AM

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#286980: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:03:56 PM

WalMart is telling its stores to take down and shut down signage and displays depicting violence while still selling guns in the wake of two mass shootings.

Walmart stores are reportedly removing "signing and displays referencing violence," including signage and playable demos for video games, following recent shootings at two of its stores.

On July 30, a gunman shot two Walmart employees and injured a police officer at a Walmart in Southaven, Mississippi. The following Saturday, on August 3, a 21-year-old man killed 22 people and wounded 24 others at a Walmart in El Paso, Texas. Days after the shooting, President Trump blamed, in part, "gruesome and grisly video games," as well as mental health issues, for mass shootings in America, despite evidence that suggests otherwise.

This week, Walmart sent employees a notice titled "Immediate Action: Remove Signing and Displays Referencing Violence." Freelance writer Kenneth Shepard posted an image of the notice on Twitter, and other copies have circulated on Reddit. "Review your store for any signing or displays that contain violent images or aggressive behavior," the notice reads. "Remove from the salesfloor or turn off these items immediately." It's unclear how widely the notice was circulated.

The notice instructs workers to remove demos of "violent games, specifically Play Station or Xbox units," events for "combat style or third-person shooter games" scheduled in the electronics department, movies depicting violence, and hunting season videos playing in the sporting goods section. It also noted that merchandisers from Anderson Merchandisers, a service provider for Walmart, will send out representatives to update display consoles and demo units "within the next week."

VICE was able to independently confirm that Walmart is asking employees to remove signing referencing violence.

"I went into work yesterday and they handed me a copy of the instructions to remove the violent signage and gaming displays," a Walmart employee who received the notice and asked to be quoted anonymously told VICE. "And I immediately threw it away because it’s obviously a way to shift the blame from the real problem regarding the mass shootings. I didn’t get to confirm this yesterday but they aren’t doing anything about the sales of guns and ammo in the store."

The argument that video games are to blame for mass shootings often distracts from larger issues that do contribute greatly to mass shootings in the country—for example, gun laws and racist ideology. This isn't to say, however, that video games and the community don't have problems; they do. And firearm manufacturers do see gamers who play titles that feature their brand name weapons as potential customers.

Notably, the company’s memo does not mention the removal of actual guns for sale from Walmart stores. Despite pleas from gun control activists and employees, Walmart said this week that there's "been no change in [its gun] policy," according to USA Today.

Spokespeople for Walmart were not available to comment by publication time.

Edited by tclittle on Aug 8th 2019 at 6:05:35 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#286981: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:06:36 PM

[up][up]It's basically racial typecasting. Which is always horseshit. I'm more interested in seeing more diverse interactions between people.

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286982: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:07:47 PM

K-Mart stopped selling guns.

Walmart should too.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#286983: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:07:51 PM

[up][up]Please clarify your comment.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:07:57 AM

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#286984: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:08:05 PM

@Ultimatum: You mean like have the FBI arrest ICE agents? Easily done - the FBI are not fans of Trump.

America's actually got a pretty resilient constitutional system. Anything can break down, of course, but we withstood the last wave of fascism and I'm confident we can do it this time too, despite the Trump election being the equivalent of a brick thrown through the window by poor rural whites. If the next President is a Democrat, they will be able to control the executive branch and get their legal orders obeyed.

Edited by Ramidel on Aug 8th 2019 at 3:08:49 AM

PresidentStalkeyes Eats moldy bread and flies into windows from United Kingdom of England-land Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Eats moldy bread and flies into windows
#286985: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:09:05 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Was it Trump's first speech after the shootings in which he blamed violent video games and mental health problems? And here I thought that was supposed to be the... well, not the 'good' one, but the blandly inoffensive one that was given to him by a teleprompter.

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on Aug 8th 2019 at 12:10:03 PM

Those sell-by-dates won't stop me because I can't read!
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#286986: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:09:44 PM

[up][up]Statistically, more poor rural whites voted for Hillary than Trump. Let’s not let rich and middle class white people off the hook here via classist stereotypes.

There’s plenty of progressive rednecks and plenty of racist accountants and CE Os.

[up] Blaming mental illness for violence is an incredibly ableist and baseless trope propagated by pro gun types. Blaming video games has about zero evidence. So I’d not give his speech so much credit.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:11:27 AM

RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#286987: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:10:20 PM

[up][up][up][up]Well, I'd be an advocate of Stop Being Stereotypical. It's time for black people to stop being defined by living underneath the tracks. Time for white people to not be assumed to be racists.

Edited by RainingMetal on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:11:17 AM

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286988: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:10:32 PM

I'm not going to attempt to argue an equivalence between bigotry against whites and bigotry against blacks. I am going to argue it creates a climate of fear, distrust, doesn't actually make the person who is afraid safer, and actually means that they might hurt themselves more likely by being automatically distrusting/suspicious than it will by being "cautious."

Bigots thrive in a climate of Us vs. Them and letting them win in that is a poor idea. Even if, yes, they have been winning for centuries.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:11:05 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#286989: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:10:40 PM

K-Mart likely could get rid of gun sales because they could unload it on Sears (unless Sears no longer does so).

The company that owns them both are almost dead because of unrelated reasons, but that's beside the point.

Edited by tclittle on Aug 8th 2019 at 6:10:59 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#286990: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:11:06 PM

> being the equivalent of a brick thrown through the window by poor rural whites.

Well it was more like the window broke because someone decided to burglarise the place and smashed the window completely

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#286991: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:12:21 PM

I don't assume that every other white person I see is racist, but it's safe to assume that they may have more privileges than they realize.

Do not obey in advance.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#286992: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:15:12 PM

You mean like have the FBI arrest ICE agents? Easily done - the FBI are not fans of Trump.

I don’t think this would go down well.

They should have sent a poet.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#286993: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:15:12 PM

[up]x6 Statistically, MOST WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST. You are demanding credit which is not deserved. I’m doing my best to learn and to be anti-racist, but if a random Black person is nervous around me, I wouldn’t blame them!

[up]x5 Charles, being on edge around white people is pretty much necessary; let’s not blame Black people for recognizing water is wet. See: the number of unarmed Black people killed during traffic stops. The problem isn’t Black people being nervous/scared, the problem is that white people keep giving them reason to be fearful.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:16:59 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#286994: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:16:51 PM

I think women and/or ethnic minorities being somewhat wary of random majority people (that is white people generally and white men more specifically) is kind of sad but unfortunately it's hard to argue that it isn't an understandable self-preservation tactic in many situations. I'm not white, but as a man I don't really begrudge a random woman too much if she doesn't know if she can trust me without actually knowing me first. I'll be fine.

Also Robrecht has a point that scrutiny is not necessarily the same thing as fear.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Aug 8th 2019 at 7:19:13 AM

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#286995: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:17:31 PM

I'm not going to attempt to argue an equivalence between bigotry against whites and bigotry against blacks. I am going to argue it creates a climate of fear, distrust, doesn't actually make the person who is afraid safer, and actually means that they might hurt themselves more likely by being automatically distrusting/suspicious than it will by being "cautious."

Bigots thrive in a climate of Us vs. Them and letting them win in that is a poor idea. Even if, yes, they have been winning for centuries. Scrutiny is not fear. Scrutiny is paying attention to what people are doing.

For too fucking long cishet abled white males have been viewed as the default, because they controlled and dominated society, and any bad action taken by someone in that category has been approached as an outlier away from the norm, while bad actions taken by people in other categories have been taken as significant for that entire category. When the reality is that due to the way systemic oppression works, the reverse tends to be true.

White males should be scrutinised, because historically when they're not, bad shit happens.

Edited by Robrecht on Aug 8th 2019 at 1:18:24 PM

Angry gets shit done.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286996: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:17:57 PM

"Credit" is a bizarre thing to use and frankly assumes that lumping white people together into an actual group (which is bullshit, "white" is a social construct by racists) is actually valid by itself. There's no "Team White."

All I'm suggesting is that treating people by demographics is bullshit. It's bullshit when anyone does it.

People should be judged by their actions, stated beliefs, or behavior.

It's not fair that 90% of the time people will be on the receiving end of that and expected to do the higher road but that's because 90% of the people are assholes.

White males should be scrutinised, because historically when they're not, bad shit happens.

I assume we're talking about in America of Anglo-Saxon lineage? Are we talking universally? People in Canada? I find it concerning when people actually use the term white unironically. White is made up by racists and needs to be destroyed as a concept.

People move in and out of its terminology like Jello and the fact its threatened now is a good thing.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:20:52 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#286997: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:19:38 PM

Hence it ought to be a goal where that isn't so. Society has made the white man the obvious heel for justifiable reasons. Of course, this is just some ramblings from a Twinkie Canuck who was raised to understand that racism is for losers.

ASAB: All Sponsors Are Bad.
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#286998: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:20:15 PM

[up][up]Sigh. Yes, the rules of whiteness are weird and arbitrary. But they still exist. And they’re a part of reality. You’re usually okay on racial justice issues; I’m surprised to see you say such a thing. Demographically a man is more of a danger to me than a woman; I’m not gonna suddenly run around alone at night and assume all random dudes are safe. And yeah, white supremacy exists and can be analyzed and white people uphold it, both actively and passively.

[up] ...

[down] Opposing the concept of rape culture doesn’t make me magically safe from rape. Opposing whiteness means actively supporting anti-racist work, not just saying you think whiteness is a bad concept.

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:24:03 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286999: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:21:34 PM

I oppose whiteness as a concept.

There's nothing worth salvaging about it.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 8th 2019 at 4:21:52 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#287000: Aug 8th 2019 at 4:21:42 PM

I'm not going to attempt to argue an equivalence between bigotry against whites and bigotry against blacks. I am going to argue it creates a climate of fear, distrust, doesn't actually make the person who is afraid safer, and actually means that they might hurt themselves more likely by being automatically distrusting/suspicious than it will by being "cautious."

Uh, yes, it does make the person who is afraid safer.

Being aware of where your security knife is in the presence of people who might hurt you makes you safer.

Being aware of who has touched your drink makes you safer.

Staying far away from this guy makes you safer.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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