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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#286876: Aug 7th 2019 at 8:48:30 PM

so politics.
Well, ~Soban, if you define politics as "actively and knowingly making decisions that negatively affect the quality of life of anyone and everyone who is not as wealthy and/or white as you", then yes.

I should also point out that the problem with the hashtags are that Mitch has done so much evil, it's difficult to focus on anything specific.
Not unlike Trump, then?

[down][down] Fatherfucker Mitch?

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 7th 2019 at 9:58:21 AM

Voltron64 Since: Jul, 2016
#286877: Aug 7th 2019 at 8:54:31 PM

I'm down with both Motherfucker Mitch and Mitch the Bitch.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286878: Aug 7th 2019 at 8:55:53 PM

I'd rather avoid the gendered insults.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#286879: Aug 7th 2019 at 9:00:26 PM

I'm not sure if "find me an apolitical reason to call this career politician, whose life's work is literally politics and whose policies within government are directly inimical to the lives of his constituents and fellow Americans, a murderer", can really be read as good-faith anymore. He's a politician. Everything he does is political.

It's been fun.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286880: Aug 7th 2019 at 9:08:40 PM

It's not like we dislike Mitch because he's a Republican. We dislike him because he's a Republican politician who uses his power and influence to enact very harmful policies that are endangering lives.

Edited by M84 on Aug 8th 2019 at 12:08:53 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#286881: Aug 7th 2019 at 9:11:09 PM

This is one of the problems I find with a lot of more conservative minded people or former Republicans.

The difficulty believing that so much of the evil in politics is so disproportionate.

It's not just politics in general, it's almost entirely one side.

The general belief is that all politicians are like this or that's just how the system is and always has been and that it really can't be that black and white.

Edited by LeGarcon on Aug 7th 2019 at 12:12:06 PM

Oh really when?
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#286882: Aug 7th 2019 at 9:12:40 PM

[up][up] And it has been firmly establish that McConnell's politics are garbage.


https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/2019/08/07/day-930/

    Day 930: Do something. 
1/ The House Judiciary Committee sued to force former White House counsel Donald McGahn to testify before Congress. The Judiciary Committee claimed that McGahn is "the most important witness, other than the president," in their investigation into possible obstruction of justice by Trump. They asked a federal judge to strike down the Trump administration's claim that McGahn and other aides are "absolutely immune" from the committee's subpoenas. McGahn spent more than 30 hours with Robert Mueller's investigators and his name appears more than 500 times in the redacted version of Mueller's report. (New York Times / NBC News / ABC News)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/house-panel-filing-suit-force-testimony-former-trump-white-house-n1039746

📌 Day 838: The White House invoked executive privilege and ordered former counsel Donald McGahn not to comply with a congressional subpoena for documents related to Robert Mueller's investigation. In a letter to the House Judiciary Committee, White House counsel Pat Cipollone argued that "McGahn does not have the legal right to disclose these documents to third parties" and asked that the committee instead direct the request to the White House, "because they implicate significant Executive Branch confidentiality interests and executive privilege." Trump has also promised to assert executive privilege to block McGahn's testimony to the committee later this month. McGahn spent more than 30 hours speaking to Mueller's investigators, outlining two episodes where Trump asked him to have Mueller fired, and later asking McGahn to deny news reports about that conversation. McGahn rebuffed both requests. (CNBC / ABC News / Washington Post / Wall Street Journal / New York Times)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-instruct-counsel-comply-congressional-subpoena/story?id=62873987

📌 Day 844: The White House asked Don McGahn to declare that Trump never obstructed justice. Two requests by presidential advisers show how far the White House has gone to try to push back on accusations that the president obstructed justice. McGahn initially entertained the request. "We did not perceive it as any kind of threat or something sinister," McGahn's attorney said in a statement. "It was a request, professionally and cordially made." (New York Times)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/10/us/politics/mcgahn-trump-obstruction.html

📌 Day 851: Trump instructed former White House counsel Don McGahn to defy a congressional subpoena and skip a House Judiciary Committee hearing scheduled for Tuesday. The committee subpoenaed McGahn to appear to answer questions about Trump's attempts to obstruct justice during the Russia investigation, but the White House presented McGahn with a 15-page legal opinion from the Justice Department that states, "Congress may not constitutionally compel the president’s senior advisers to testify about their official duties." The current White House counsel sent a letter to the committee explaining that Trump instructed McGahn not to appear due to the "constitutional immunity" outlined in the DOJ legal opinion, "and in order to protect the prerogatives of the office of the presidency." (New York Times / ABC News / Washington Post)

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-intends-block-counsel-mcgahn-congressional-testimony/story?id=63155923

📌 Day 852: Former White House counsel Don McGahn failed to appear at hearing in front of the House Judiciary Committee, following Trump's instructions to ignore the congressional subpoena. "Our subpoenas are not optional," Committee chair Jerry Nadler said after McGahn failed to show up. Nadler also warned that "one way or another," the panel will hear from McGahn, even if that means holding McGahn in contempt of Congress for failing to appear. "This committee," he said, "will have no choice but to enforce the subpoena against him." (Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/6384c08d99de4bfa982cdd5065f63434

📌 Day 872: Jerry Nadler agreed to delay a vote to hold Barr and McGahn in contempt of Congress after reaching the deal with the Department of Justice for evidence from the Mueller report. The House will still proceed with a vote to authorize the House Judiciary Committee to take Barr to federal court to fully enforce its subpoena, but will not formally vote to hold Barr in contempt. "If the Department proceeds in good faith and we are able to obtain everything that we need, then there will be no need to take further steps," Nadler said. "If important information is held back, then we will have no choice but to enforce our subpoena in court and consider other remedies." (ABC News / NBC News / NPR)

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/10/731300750/house-democrats-to-get-some-mueller-report-material-but-contempt-vote-is-still-o

2/ Trump visited both Dayton, Ohio and El Paso, Texas, but remained largely out of public view. In Dayton, protesters waved signs and chanted to "Dump Trump" and to "Do Something!" because "Thoughts and prayers don't stop bullets." Before leaving Washington, Trump said he "would like to stay out of the political fray" during the trip, dismissing suggestions that his rhetoric on race and immigration is to blame for a rise in hate-inspired violence, saying: "I think my rhetoric brings people together." Hours earlier, Trump attacked Beto O'Rourke by telling the Democratic presidential candidate to "be quiet," and mocked him for having a "phony name to indicate Hispanic heritage" (a reference to his discredited claim that O'Rourke had changed his first name to appeal to Hispanic voters). Trump also quoted conservative news reporting that "the Dayton, Ohio, shooter had a history of supporting political figures like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and ANTIFA" – a radical leftist group. After visiting Dayton, Trump attacked Mayor Nan Whaley, calling her a supporter of Bernie Sanders and of antifa and that she "totally misrepresent[ed] what took place inside of the hospital." during his visit. Whaley said she told Trump during his visit that Dayton is "really looking forward to some action" on gun control. Journalists weren't allowed to accompany Trump at hospital in Dayton, but Trump's social media director, Dan Scavino, claimed that Trump was "treated like a Rock Star inside the hospital." (Washington Post / New York Times / ABC News / Bloomberg / BBC)

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dayton-site-latest-mass-shooting-warily-awaits-trump-64820549

3/ Congressional Republicans are "confident Congress will be able to find common ground" on legislation to help law enforcement take guns from those who pose an imminent danger. The so-called "red flag" laws allow police to temporarily confiscate firearms from a person deemed by a judge as posing a risk of violence. While Republicans in Congress are focused passing "red flag" legislation, Trump claimed – without evidence – that there was a "great appetite" for reforming background checks among lawmakers. Trump also claimed there is no "political appetite" for legislation to ban assault weapons, but suggested he'd bring lawmakers back from their August recess if Republicans and Democrats can "get close" on a gun reform proposal. Meanwhile, more than 200 Democratic lawmakers urged Mitch McConnell to call a vote on House-passed legislation aimed at strengthening background checks for gun purchases. (New York Times / Politico / CNBC / NPR / The Hill)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/07/donald-trump-background-checks-guns-1450897

The Trump administration has eased more than half a dozen restrictions that expanded access to guns by lifting some bans and limiting the names in the national database used to keep firearms away from dangerous people. Trump claimed his administration has done "much more than most" to curb mass shootings in the United States. (Politico)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/07/trump-gun-access-restrictions-1449663

Texas passed new firearm laws that will make it easier to have guns on school grounds and loosened restrictions on how many armed school marshals a school district can appoint, allows for licensed handgun owners to legally carry weapons in churches, among others. The laws were passed before attack in El Paso and are set to go into effect on September 1st. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/07/us/texas-gun-laws-el-paso-shooting-trnd/

4/ The owner of the online message board 8chan was called to testify before Congress after the website was linked to the terrorist attack in El Paso. The House Homeland Security Committee demanded that 8chan owner Jim Watkins testify about site's efforts to address "the proliferation of extremist content, including white supremacist content." Committee chair Bennie Thompson and the ranking Republican Mike Rogers sent a letter to Watkins, an American citizen living in the Philippines, noting that the El Paso massacre was "at least the third act of supremacist violence linked to your website this year." (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-shooting-tech-idUSKCN1UX012

Trump's campaign promoted a video that included two clearly visible signs promoting a QAnon conspiracy theory. The signs appear in a close-up shot of a "Women for Trump" video published online by the Trump campaign in late July. It is unclear whether the ad was being broadcast on TV or just online. A warm-up speaker at one of Trump's rallies last week, for example, recited a popular QAnon slogan during his speech. The Women for Trump video appears to have been removed from YouTube. (Daily Beast)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-campaign-ad-features-qanon-signs

The FBI warned that fringe conspiracy theories are a new domestic terrorist threat. The document specifically mentions QAnon, a network that believes in a deep state conspiracy against Trump, and Pizzagate, the theory that a pedophile ring involving Clinton associates was being run out of the basement of a Washington, D.C., pizza restaurant, which doesn't have a basement. (Yahoo News)

https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-documents-conspiracy-theories-terrorism-160000507.html

5/ A U.S. State Department official oversaw a Washington, D.C.-area chapter of a white nationalist organization, hosted white nationalists at his home, and published white nationalist propaganda online. Matthew Gebert works as a foreign affairs officer assigned to the Bureau of Energy Resources. (Southern Poverty Law Center)

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/08/07/us-state-department-official-involved-white-nationalist-movement-hatewatch-determines

Tucker Carlson claimed that white supremacy "is a hoax, just like the Russia hoax." The Fox News host called white supremacy a "conspiracy theory used to divide the country and keep a hold on power." (Washington Post)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/tucker-carlsons-claim-that-white-supremacy-is-a-hoax-is-easy-to-prove-wrong-just-watch-his-show/2019/08/07/91ac782a-b90c-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html

    Notables. 
Rep. Joaquin Castro tweeted a list of names of constituents in his Texas congressional district who have maxed out their contributions to the Trump campaign. Joaquin is the twin brother of 2020 presidential candidate Julián Castro. All of the information in Castro's tweet, including the occupations of the donors, is public information. (Politico / Washington Post)

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/06/joaquin-castro-trump-donors-1450672

Kim Jong Un supervised a live-fire demonstration of newly developed short-range ballistic missiles in an attempt to send a warning to the United States and South Korea. North Korea has conducted four rounds of weapons demonstrations in two weeks, all of which come during a stalemate in nuclear negotiations between Trump and Kim. Trump has repeatedly dismissed the significance of the tests, which experts say has given North Korea more room to develop its capabilities to strike South Korea and the U.S. ahead of negotiations. Meanwhile, the U.S. and its allies have been conducting military drills of their own, and negotiations are set to resume when those drills end later this month. (Associated Press)

https://apnews.com/fe22f1eeefa04514910ab180ea1e0b9a

Trump lied 56 times last week – down from 78 false claims the week prior and 61 false claims the week before that. (CNN)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/06/politics/weekly-fact-check-trump-early-august/index.html

Edited by sgamer82 on Aug 7th 2019 at 10:39:29 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286883: Aug 7th 2019 at 9:15:41 PM

[up][up]As has been mentioned on OTC before, the first step of maturity is acknowledging that not everything is black and white while the second step of maturity is acknowledging that sometimes they are.

Disgusted, but not surprised
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#286884: Aug 7th 2019 at 9:19:10 PM

So, ICE kidnapped 680 undocumented workers in Mississippi, leaving their children behind.

An immigrant rights group summed it up well:

Trump’s war on immigrants is escalating.

Days after the deadly attack on Latinos in El Paso, hours before ‘offering condolences’ to the people he helped target, Trump gave the OK to carry out the largest single-state raid in our nation’s history. [1/x]

Today, that war shattered nearly 700 families, more than 700 lives.

It’s no coincidence that the raids took place across 7 sites in areas that are hard to reach, where there is little to no infrastructure in place to help deal with the aftermath. [2/x]

Edited by wisewillow on Aug 7th 2019 at 9:20:11 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#286885: Aug 7th 2019 at 9:30:59 PM

I want to be clear that I'm not defending Mitch, my most likely response is going to be along the lines of "people disagree with that assessment".

>As has been mentioned on OTC before, the first step of maturity is acknowledging that not everything is black and white while the second step of maturity is acknowledging that sometimes they are.

Yes, and I've taken the second step with regards to an issue that the Democrat party holds dear, but I can't discuss why on this forum. Regardless, when you have significant chunks of the population disagreeing about something, there is good reason to think it's not as black and white as it first appears. Also if an issue is complex with many details that are frequently debated also lends it's self towards greyness.

Given the most likely avenue is going to be insurance, I'll note that this poll states "The majority of Americans, 57%, continue to believe the federal government should be responsible for ensuring that all Americans have health insurance. At the same time, a majority reject a government-run healthcare system, with 40% in favor and 54% preferring a system based on private insurance. These attitudes help underscore the complex challenge facing policymakers attempting to address problems with the nation's health system."

This gives reasons to believe that this issue is a complex one (complexity tends to lend towards being gray) and one on which disagreement is common (large chunks of disagreement also indicating grayness).

~sgamer82 Make the best argument that you can, and let the cards fall where they may. I might not agree that the case is as strong as you say. if you are going to list siding against you on a issue that is more contentious then not, then that's probably not the most effective strategy for changing my mind. As I said, I'm probably still going to be uncomfortable with calling him a murderer even if you successfully make your case.

Edited by Soban on Aug 7th 2019 at 12:31:52 PM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#286887: Aug 8th 2019 at 12:36:06 AM

How about ManslaughterMitch then?

You know, not to upset the delicate sensitivities of the Republicans.

"You can reply to this Message!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286888: Aug 8th 2019 at 12:44:24 AM

I've seen tissues more durable than the egos of a lot of Republicans and their supporters.

Disgusted, but not surprised
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#286889: Aug 8th 2019 at 12:50:32 AM

And then they want brownie points for rejecting Trump while ignoring the more systemic issues of the GOP that lead to him.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"You can reply to this Message!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286890: Aug 8th 2019 at 12:58:11 AM

Even when their "rejection" doesn't actually translate to voting against the party line.

The sad thing is, even that is enough for the rest of the GOP to turn on them. So maybe they do deserve a (small and stale) cookie.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#286891: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:31:35 AM

I think rather than dismissive snipes it'd be more useful laying out a case of why the Evil Turtle is getting that moniker (the Evil part, not the Turtle part - Wikipedia discusses that one) and the Massacre one:

As well as the general impression that Evil Turtle is willing to do anything and step over as many corpses as necessary to get his way, without anything resembling ethics or shame along the way.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Aug 13th 2019 at 10:52:07 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Codafett Knows-Many-Things Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Knows-Many-Things
#286892: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:33:05 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-openness-to-extensive-background-checks-for-gun-buys-draws-warning-from-nra/2019/08/07/a5f82060-b92d-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html

The NRA turns on Trump the second he starts expressing desire for some background check reform. As much as I dislike Trump, I will say that he is not anywhere near the level of pure evil that is the National Rifle Association.

Just Having Fun
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#286893: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:41:07 AM

Trump is honestly more ego than evil.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286894: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:49:32 AM

Which says a lot about how inflated his ego is, considering he's pretty evil.

Disgusted, but not surprised
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#286895: Aug 8th 2019 at 1:54:28 AM

I'd say that ego is in itself an evil in sufficient quantities, and leads to other evils.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#286896: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:06:40 AM

Trump is kinda random and lacking in principles aside from his racism. His openness to deal on background checks is a case of the clock moving into a decent position. Either that, or Trump is moving into election mode and trying to make concessions to conservative Democrats (the guys who really want to be Republicans but can't stand him or McConnell).

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286897: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:08:15 AM

I expect him to shift out of this again sooner or later. He'll be back to pandering to the NRA.

Don't expect anything decent from Trump and you won't be surprised.

Edited by M84 on Aug 8th 2019 at 5:08:34 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#286898: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:09:30 AM

Not sure. The NRA is bankrupt, remember? They may have outlived their usefulness. Do you expect Trump to be loyal to people who can't pay?

Edited by Ramidel on Aug 8th 2019 at 1:09:41 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286899: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:10:56 AM

Who knows. Maybe this background check thing will scare gun nuts into supporting the NRA again.

And no, I'm not suggesting this was Trump's intention with this move. That's giving him too much credit.

Disgusted, but not surprised
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286900: Aug 8th 2019 at 2:26:57 AM

The NRA actually turned on Trump earlier, though this isn't something they advertised.

In addition to the fact they made some monumentally stupid decisions like trying to create their own version of Fox News and hiring, again, Oliver North (who promptly began a campaign of embezzlement as well as blackmail that would land anyone else in prison if not for the fact exposing his crimes would make them even more stupid looking) — they also donated massive amounts of resources to getting DT elected. Huge huge chunks of their budget.

All of which Donald did exactly jack shit to show his gratitude for—and which backfired as people let their memberships collapse and stopped donating because guns were now "safe." Basically, they donated Koch levels of money and helped contribute to their impending bankruptcy.

The NRA has already lost their network (which is good but stops a lot of the bleeding) but it's a shadow of its former self and won't be able to do much next election, they've already informed the Republicans.

(How much of this is also the fact that their primary donors—Russia—have also cut them off remains to be seen)

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 8th 2019 at 2:27:41 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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