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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#286701: Aug 6th 2019 at 11:35:16 AM

Jon Huntsman, Trump's ambassador to Russia, is resigning effective October 3rd amid rumors he's planning a run for Utah governor.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#286702: Aug 6th 2019 at 11:36:31 AM

Money's on Kushner taking the role a la Saudi Arabia.

Edited by Larkmarn on Aug 6th 2019 at 2:47:19 PM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#286703: Aug 6th 2019 at 11:50:38 AM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#286704: Aug 6th 2019 at 11:59:08 AM

IIRC Huntsman was one of the more center-right candidates in the 2008 election so unless something changed I would probably be OK with that.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#286705: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:34:29 PM

To be clear, I am not saying that all gun owners believe in the things I posted. Most polled gun owners in the U.S. are in favor of stronger regulations. However, by voting in Republicans on the basis of their NRA credentials, they are de facto approving of that mindset. It's the logical conclusion of their choices. They make themselves a part of the problem.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#286706: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:36:39 PM

For someone who has guns as one of their main issues, what are their options? It's not like the Democrats are known for their gun friendly policy suggestions.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#286707: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:39:27 PM

What’s so unfriendly to responsible gun owners about background checks?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#286708: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:39:39 PM

Keeping hands out of emotionally unstable people =/= gun-unfriendly.

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Aug 6th 2019 at 3:40:33 PM

i'm tired, my friend
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#286709: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:40:55 PM

Soban: Show me a Democratic candidate for President who wants to "take away everyone's guns". The slippery slope argument doesn't work because the only other option is "do nothing and send thoughts and prayers".

I mean, you could vote for Republicans in primary elections who aren't enslaved to the NRA. That'd send a message that compromise is at least on the table.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 6th 2019 at 3:41:08 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#286710: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:42:31 PM

[up]Yeah, like, uh...

....................

i'm tired, my friend
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#286711: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:49:21 PM

Soban has a history of yelling “democrats bad” and not responding when asked to show democrats actually doing the thing they accuse democrats of.

We’re pretty past the point of a good faith discussion now.

Edited by Silasw on Aug 6th 2019 at 7:50:19 PM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#286712: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:53:59 PM

That's why when I questioned one of ~Soban's claims I pages them as well.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#286713: Aug 6th 2019 at 12:55:06 PM

Meanwhile Trump has explicitly said to take people's guns away without due process.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#286714: Aug 6th 2019 at 1:01:57 PM

[up]Didn't he walk that one back, though?

i'm tired, my friend
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#286715: Aug 6th 2019 at 1:22:21 PM

They're totally convinced of the idea that Mutually Assured Destruction on an individual scale would end gun violence forever.

Yeah, that idea only works if, when someone fires a gun, you have enough time to look up, identify the person firing the gun, and shoot your own gun before the first bullet even hits anyone, and that would require bullets to travel at speeds so slow that they're not even dangerous.

Imca (Veteran)
#286716: Aug 6th 2019 at 1:22:30 PM

Soban: Show me a Democratic candidate for President who wants to "take away everyone's guns". The slippery slope argument doesn't work because the only other option is "do nothing and send thoughts and prayers".

That's strawmaning people like Soban's point... coming from some one who supports the democratic party and stronger gun regulations... they do have idiotic policies when it comes to firearms, focused mostly on what makes a gun scary, rather then what makes a gun deadly.

Just look at things like "Assault Weapon Bans" which are almost entirely focused on cosmetic attributes of a gun, that any one with a will and 100$ can bypass.

Ideally, if you want to restrict incidences of mass causality like this, one would look to policies that prevent the hoarding of ammunition like we have back home, without bullets a gun is just a stick...

Edited by Imca on Aug 6th 2019 at 1:24:31 AM

singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#286717: Aug 6th 2019 at 1:23:39 PM

The cognitive dissonance I'm getting with the good guy with a gun argument is that it requires everyone to act in a rational manner.

It sort of implies that a mass shooter wouldn't begin his rampage for fear of getting shot. Which implies that the shooter wants to survive the shooting themselves and continue living. Which to me would imply that they didn't actually want to commit mass murder because doing so ends your life.

All of that is a rational way of seeing the problem. But you don't get rational mass murderers. It's almost a contradiction in terms.

I suppose the only other way to look at it is that the good guy with a gun argument is a theoretical damage limitation exercise. That having everyone armed in theory makes it harder to "get a high score". But what a fatalistic view to take: pretty much saying that a dozen or so people have to be killed for no apparent reason every time a shooter gets it into his head that he needs to shoot some people just to get his point across. Those deaths are simply the price that society pays for having guns - when personally I think that even one death is too high a price.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#286718: Aug 6th 2019 at 1:27:21 PM

[up][up] For all that some Democrats may be proposing stupid ideas, not one Republican has put forth a single workable idea. Start with something, anything. Make a good-faith effort. Understand that what the other side really wants is not to be shot dead by some madman. I promise that common ground will develop.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 6th 2019 at 4:28:29 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
bitemytail Since: Dec, 2011
#286719: Aug 6th 2019 at 1:31:22 PM

[up][up][up]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rGpykAX1fo

You mean like proposing a ban on a component that the person doesn't even know what it does?

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#286720: Aug 6th 2019 at 1:48:22 PM

Who was that?

i'm tired, my friend
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#286721: Aug 6th 2019 at 2:03:58 PM

Emotion and morality aside, the underlying point is that such rhetoric is extremely counterproductive, as it then feeds into the "Both Sides!" argument.
My problem is that responses like "nobody should be advocating violence, on either side" or "calls to violence or even wishful thinking are not acceptable", if not qualified with something that clarifies the intended meaning, imply moral judgment of those who advocate/call for violence that disregards their reasons for doing so. What's hard about saying "What she's asking for will not help this situation"?

It's also against forum rules, which is probably the more immediately practical point to consider here.
The rules forbid people here from actively promoting/supporting acts of violence against living people. Show me where that has been done.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#286722: Aug 6th 2019 at 2:06:40 PM

imply moral judgment of those who advocate/call for violence that disregards their reasons for doing so.

Which would be a fair judgement, given the highly questionable morality of advocating for politically-motivated violence.

Re: Guns, I believe every 2020 Democrat has endorsed an assault weapons ban, which is basically a non-starter policy for most gun owners.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 6th 2019 at 2:09:12 AM

They should have sent a poet.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#286723: Aug 6th 2019 at 2:10:01 PM

"Highly questionable" does not equal "immoral". Verify the true nature of her reasoning before judging the (im)morality of her call. None of us are mind-readers, after all.

Edited by MarqFJA on Aug 6th 2019 at 12:10:34 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#286724: Aug 6th 2019 at 2:12:31 PM

[up] Yeah, I’d say calling for the death of a political opposition figure is always immoral. I’ve already evaluated how I feel about the morality of wishing for someone’s death.

Not only is it immoral, it’s plain old unhelpful too. All you get is a momentary catharsis at the expense of casting doubt on any position you might have held.

Edited by archonspeaks on Aug 6th 2019 at 2:14:55 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#286725: Aug 6th 2019 at 2:14:41 PM

Political violence in this context in the United States is not justified practically or morally, whether it could become justified in some hypothetical United States is not relevant and thus it's probably best to avoid such hypotheticals unless absolutely necessary.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang

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