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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Reflextion from a post-sanity world (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
#286551: Aug 4th 2019 at 7:21:47 PM

Too bad!

EDIT: Pagetopper

Edited by Reflextion on Aug 4th 2019 at 10:22:44 AM

Someone did tell me life was going to be this way.
RainingMetal (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286554: Aug 4th 2019 at 7:48:17 PM

No, that would be if he got addicted to opiods and lost his fortune paying for medical costs.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#286555: Aug 4th 2019 at 7:53:45 PM

[up][up][up][up]He deliberately fractured his own shoulder to delay the vote.wild mass guess

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Aug 4th 2019 at 10:54:00 AM

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#286556: Aug 4th 2019 at 7:57:51 PM

Thoughts and prayers

Do not obey in advance.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#286557: Aug 4th 2019 at 7:59:05 PM

[up][up] I know you're joking, but that line of logic fails because the Senate is out for recess until after Labor Day and doesn't have any actual votes scheduled until then.

Speaking of 8chan: CloudFlare had announced they will be terminating security services for 8chan.

    Blog 

The mass shootings in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio are horrific tragedies. In the case of the El Paso shooting, the suspected terrorist gunman appears to have been inspired by the forum website known as 8chan. Based on evidence we've seen, it appears that he posted a screed to the site immediately before beginning his terrifying attack on the El Paso Walmart killing 20 people.

Unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. Nearly the same thing happened on 8chan before the terror attack in Christchurch, New Zealand. The El Paso shooter specifically referenced the Christchurch incident and appears to have been inspired by the largely unmoderated discussions on 8chan which glorified the previous massacre. In a separate tragedy, the suspected killer in the Poway, California synagogue shooting also posted a hate-filled “open letter” on 8chan. 8chan has repeatedly proven itself to be a cesspool of hate.

8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

We do not take this decision lightly. Cloudflare is a network provider. In pursuit of our goal of helping build a better internet, we’ve considered it important to provide our security services broadly to make sure as many users as possible are secure, and thereby making cyberattacks less attractive — regardless of the content of those websites. Many of our customers run platforms of their own on top of our network. If our policies are more conservative than theirs it effectively undercuts their ability to run their services and set their own policies. We reluctantly tolerate content that we find reprehensible, but we draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events and are lawless by design. 8chan has crossed that line. It will therefore no longer be allowed to use our services.

What Will Happen Next

Unfortunately, we have seen this situation before and so we have a good sense of what will play out. Almost exactly two years ago we made the determination to kick another disgusting site off Cloudflare's network: the Daily Stormer. That caused a brief interruption in the site's operations but they quickly came back online using a Cloudflare competitor. That competitor at the time promoted as a feature the fact that they didn't respond to legal process. Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever. They are no longer Cloudflare's problem, but they remain the Internet's problem.

I have little doubt we'll see the same happen with 8chan. While removing 8chan from our network takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fester online. It does nothing to address why mass shootings occur. It does nothing to address why portions of the population feel so disenchanted they turn to hate. In taking this action we've solved our own problem, but we haven't solved the Internet's.

In the two years since the Daily Stormer what we have done to try and solve the Internet’s deeper problem is engage with law enforcement and civil society organizations to try and find solutions. Among other things, that resulted in us cooperating around monitoring potential hate sites on our network and notifying law enforcement when there was content that contained an indication of potential violence. We will continue to work within the legal process to share information when we can to hopefully prevent horrific acts of violence. We believe this is our responsibility and, given Cloudflare's scale and reach, we are hopeful we will continue to make progress toward solving the deeper problem.

Rule of Law

We continue to feel incredibly uncomfortable about playing the role of content arbiter and do not plan to exercise it often. Some have wrongly speculated this is due to some conception of the United States' First Amendment. That is incorrect. First, we are a private company and not bound by the First Amendment. Second, the vast majority of our customers, and more than 50% of our revenue, comes from outside the United States where the First Amendment and similarly libertarian freedom of speech protections do not apply. The only relevance of the First Amendment in this case and others is that it allows us to choose who we do and do not do business with; it does not obligate us to do business with everyone.

Instead our concern has centered around another much more universal idea: the Rule of Law. The Rule of Law requires policies be transparent and consistent. While it has been articulated as a framework for how governments ensure their legitimacy, we have used it as a touchstone when we think about our own policies.

We have been successful because we have a very effective technological solution that provides security, performance, and reliability in an affordable and easy-to-use way. As a result of that, a huge portion of the Internet now sits behind our network. 10% of the top million, 17% of the top 100,000, and 19% of the top 10,000 Internet properties use us today. 10% of the Fortune 1,000 are paying Cloudflare customers.

Cloudflare is not a government. While we've been successful as a company, that does not give us the political legitimacy to make determinations on what content is good and bad. Nor should it. Questions around content are real societal issues that need politically legitimate solutions. We will continue to engage with lawmakers around the world as they set the boundaries of what is acceptable in their countries through due process of law. And we will comply with those boundaries when and where they are set.

Europe, for example, has taken a lead in this area. As we've seen governments there attempt to address hate and terror content online, there is recognition that different obligations should be placed on companies that organize and promote content — like Facebook and You Tube — rather than those that are mere conduits for that content. Conduits, like Cloudflare, are not visible to users and therefore cannot be transparent and consistent about their policies.

The unresolved question is how should the law deal with platforms that ignore or actively thwart the Rule of Law? That's closer to the situation we have seen with the Daily Stormer and 8chan. They are lawless platforms. In cases like these, where platforms have been designed to be lawless and unmoderated, and where the platforms have demonstrated their ability to cause real harm, the law may need additional remedies. We and other technology companies need to work with policy makers in order to help them understand the problem and define these remedies. And, in some cases, it may mean moving enforcement mechanisms further down the technical stack. Our Obligation

Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. At some level firing 8chan as a customer is easy. They are uniquely lawless and that lawlessness has contributed to multiple horrific tragedies. Enough is enough.

What's hard is defining the policy that we can enforce transparently and consistently going forward. We, and other technology companies like us that enable the great parts of the Internet, have an obligation to help propose solutions to deal with the parts we're not proud of. That's our obligation and we're committed to it.

Unfortunately the action we take today won’t fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue. Here are some organizations that have active work to help address it:

  • Anti-Defamation League
  • Gen Next Foundation
  • Perspective API
  • 7 Cups

Our whole Cloudflare team’s thoughts are with the families grieving in El Paso, Texas and Dayton, Ohio this evening.

Edited by tclittle on Aug 4th 2019 at 10:03:16 AM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286558: Aug 4th 2019 at 8:04:03 PM

I wonder if there are any Russian servers that will offer to host them.

Sadly, I'm not joking.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#286559: Aug 4th 2019 at 8:13:58 PM

[up][up]Okay, I forgot about that, but I still made myself laugh as I wrote that, so it was a joke well spent.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#286560: Aug 4th 2019 at 8:14:30 PM

Currently a rumor, but it seems a couple of Republicans have outed US Representative Kenny Marchant (R-TX-24) is going to announce his retirement tomorrow, becoming the 4th Texas Republican and the 7th Republican in Congress to announce retirement in the past three weeks.

TX-24 represents a suburban area on the north side of the Dallas-Fort Worth metro.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286561: Aug 4th 2019 at 8:45:56 PM

Let's hope this trend keeps going.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#286562: Aug 4th 2019 at 9:41:09 PM

https://twitter.com/ericbradner/status/1158216987908218882

PHEW

Holy shit, Beto sounds so pissed here

New Survey coming this weekend!
Imca (Veteran)
#286563: Aug 4th 2019 at 9:57:05 PM

It happened in his district, where he grew up.... its not hard to imagine why.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#286564: Aug 4th 2019 at 10:30:46 PM

It's also a bloody stupid question to ask. "Hey, what do you think the guy who keeps fanning racial tensions and promoting violence could do different?"

Oh geez, I dunno. What a difficult question - no, it actually isn't. The answer is obvious and asking it just comes as disingenuous at best.

Beto also responded on Twitter

We know what Trump is doing. He stokes racism. He incites violence. We shouldn’t be asking if there’s anything he can do or if he’s responsible for this when we know the answer. I stand by what I said.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 4th 2019 at 7:45:27 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#286565: Aug 4th 2019 at 11:05:07 PM

[up][up]Yeah, It's Personal for him. Very personal.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Codafett Knows-Many-Things Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Knows-Many-Things
#286566: Aug 4th 2019 at 11:48:16 PM

https://news.google.com/stories/CAAqOQgKIjNDQklTSURvSmMzUnZjbmt0TXpZd1NoTUtFUWpYc0l5T2pvQU1FYVZSQ29FT09Cd2dLQUFQAQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/04/tech/cloudflare-8chan/index.html

Cloudflare has pulled support for 8chan after mountains of evidence pointed towards a correlation between an unmoderated hell hole and nutjobs going out and committing acts of terror. I'm not going to complain that this took too long, but rather I'm just happy someone has seen the obvious and done something about it.

I expect I'll find a another forum somewhere full of people "confused" and outraged as to this "triumph of censorship."

Edit: Ah hell, I was late. Sorry about the repeat, but I'll keep the articles up anyway.

Edited by Codafett on Aug 4th 2019 at 11:50:33 AM

Just Having Fun
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#286567: Aug 5th 2019 at 12:11:19 AM

Slate article on the real connection between video games and mass shootings.

The only reason why 8chan is such a big place nowadays and is connected to white nationalism is because of {Insert Banned Gaming Topic}. 4chan's own banning of said topic is what lead to 8chan's rise.

Because gaming is so vast, it’s clear that the specific grievances of {REDACTED}—that women should not be allowed to criticize games from a feminist perspective and that industry attempts to increase diversity are ruining games for “real” gamers—had to do with the entitlement of an angry subculture of men within gaming, not the content of the games themselves. This subculture of {REDACTED}, who erroneously believe themselves to be the only true gamers in a world of phonies, is what made the culture of 8chan what it is. It was violent then, and it’s more violent now. It was misogynist and racist then, and all the more so now. {REDACTED} wanted a safe space from which to attack the women they thought were ruining video games, and by that metric, their creation has succeeded beyond their wildest imaginings.

Edited by tclittle on Aug 5th 2019 at 2:12:47 PM

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Codafett Knows-Many-Things Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Knows-Many-Things
#286568: Aug 5th 2019 at 12:22:52 AM

[up] This is just a theory but I think Gamergate and events like it was a symptom of a larger disease only now coming to light; The culture war between nerdy shut ins that hate...everyone and "SJWS". The last, what, 8 years of everybody dogpiling Tumblrinas, progressives and feminists and acting like they're the worst people in the world for wanting stupid things like equality was just normalizing these attitudes that would make Jim Crow enthusiast blush.

Nowadays someone has to hit all kinds of criteria to be labeled a racist or a misogynist. Meanwhile being seen as one of those fucking SJ Ws (Or liberal, since that seems the more popular insult) is as easy as changing your hairstyle.

Edited by Codafett on Aug 5th 2019 at 12:29:20 PM

Just Having Fun
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#286569: Aug 5th 2019 at 12:47:26 AM

[up]x2 What is this, Jack Thompson?

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#286570: Aug 5th 2019 at 12:56:39 AM

[up] No - its obvious that these troglodytes basically created this identity for themselves to justify their violent far right wing activities. They've gone beyond just harassing people online to actively killing people. And people said that Law and Order episode with terrorist Gamer Gaters was too over the top.

I'd call it prophetic.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286571: Aug 5th 2019 at 2:24:22 AM

This is a site of geeks for geeks doing about the geekiest thing imaginable in breaking down films, books, and video games into their component parts so we can figure out what stuff is made of other stuff. So obviously, we can speak here about the toxic elements of geekdom pretty freely. There's always been a rather nasty undercurrent of it starting in the 90s with the internet and continuing to the present day. Actually, no, it's always been there period. In the 70s there's all manner of horrifying stories from conventions where women were stalked, assaulted, and subject to terrible treatment.

Nerd culture has always had an Angry White Man element to it which we can pretty much chart the development of from moment to moment. The misogyny and feeling that "women don't get X" is not because they would welcome women into X but the opposite. When women expressed interest, the men involved expressed anger and suspicion because it underscored a factor: They believed the reason women didn't like them in RL was because of their hobbies and interests not because they were misogynist shitbags. The racism and fascist apologia was there too but it was coded and hidden in fandoms. "Nazi" jokes were created like Godwin's law and irony.

Then they all got onto 4chan and it became a darker darker place until they were expelled and became 8chan. Smaller and smaller groups. Intensifying their anger and rhetoric as it becomes increasingly clear they are not among the majority but still able to find groups that cater to their worldview.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 5th 2019 at 2:25:32 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#286572: Aug 5th 2019 at 2:35:33 AM

"You are probably going to be a very successful computer person. But you're going to go through life thinking that girls don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won't be true. It'll be because you're an asshole." ~The Social Network

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286573: Aug 5th 2019 at 2:38:11 AM

Of all places, there was actually an article in MAXIM to nerds that was surprisingly biting back when I was in college. It said, basically, "Nerds are developing a lot of financial success now and they're taking it out on everyone else now."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#286574: Aug 5th 2019 at 3:09:05 AM

It kind of speaks to a larger problem where a lot of white men end up defining themselves through the lens of victimhood, usually associated with an insecurity regarding hegemonic masculine ideals and whether they fit into them or not.

It's not really a coincidence that a lot of them end up co-opting the language of oppressed groups, they don't really have the necessary perspective to know any better or just don't care to learn it.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#286575: Aug 5th 2019 at 3:12:05 AM

Part of the issue is the insidious nature of "white identity" and how it destroys things for the people who cling to it the same way that toxic masculinity destroys men. Because a lot of people who are white are suffering extreme poverty, violence, and abuse by society. The Hunger Problem, Opioid Epidemic, collapsed economy, medical expenses, and more in Kentucky are problems shared between whites as well as minorities.

However, so many people refuse to acknowledge this because they think that either being white is a privilege that they must protect or that is a sign of persecution. When, of course, the only thing they must due is have the disadvantaged on many sides of the racial line work together.

Which is to say, white dudes need to realize their problems aren't because of being white and they sure as fuck solved by being it so they should just focus on being poor and how get the fuckers out of office who want to keep them that way.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 5th 2019 at 3:13:03 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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