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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285876: Jul 27th 2019 at 12:41:53 PM

At most, seven promises. Preferably three. But Three National, two state, and two local makes a lot of sense. Then put everything into fulfilling those promises first. If it were up to me, the three national promises would be the following.

1. Comprehensive immigration reform. 2. Green new deal (I don't like it personally, but it seems to be popular.) 3. Employee involvement in corporate governance.

Each of these points would be thorough and specific about what would be done if the election was won by them on federal, state, and local levels. Republican arguments against them would go to a central working group who would provide detailed responses on why these things are a good idea. No one up for election with a D by their name would have to sound uninformed or wavering about any of the three ideas. Any problems that are brought up would have answers.

Edited by Soban on Jul 27th 2019 at 3:42:32 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285877: Jul 27th 2019 at 12:48:20 PM

Yeah, the problem with doing things based solely on trying to appeal to as many people as possible is that you sometimes will end up screwing people over to do it.

For instance, dropping support for illegal immigrants to get subsidized healthcare is a morally abhorrent thing to do, regardless if its popular or not.

Things like NIMBY attitudes might be popular, but that does not mean we should cater to them.

This example supports my point, people oppose giving undocumented immigrants subsidized healthcare but they support giving a path to citizenship. In other words, the moral dilemma your positing does not exist.

If we look at the policies that are popular we aren't actually sacrificing anything or behaving morally questionable, we'd be focusing on policy that is good and ambitious that would help everyone. We wouldn't even be losing anything, we can't pass everything and this way we can get elected and work on moving the Overton window alongside evening the playing-field with electoral reform.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#285878: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:07:30 PM

[up] Whether or not someone is here illegally should have no bearing on whether or not they are allowed to get healthcare, for one. Also, the same poll says that most Americans do not want to decriminalize the border. This seems to add up to Americans wanting illegal immigrants having a way to become legal immigrants, but to not get any support when they do not have official status.

The moral dilemma posited still exists.

And again, something being popular or not doesn't have bearing on its necessity. A lot of people opposed affordable housing initiatives, but they're still necessary.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285879: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:12:30 PM

Whether or not someone is here illegally should have no bearing on whether or not they are allowed to get healthcare, for one. Also, the same poll says that most Americans do not want to decriminalize the border. This seems to add up to Americans wanting illegal immigrants having a way to become legal immigrants, but to not get any support when they do not have official status.

The moral dilemma posited still exists.

I don't see how. There is no harm to not wanting to support undocumented immigrants when you also support making them documented.

There's no need to decriminalize the border when you can just make legal immigration significantly easier.

And again, something being popular or not doesn't have bearing on its necessity. A lot of people opposed affordable housing initiatives, but they're still necessary.

We are a democracy, it has a bearing on viability. If a program is not viable then it's simply not useful, and thus any necessity it may or may not have is irrelevant.

If we choose to maximize our electoral benefit by focusing on the good policy that's actually popular then we can push the necessary reform that will make the rest actually viable later, we cannot afford to pointlessly hold our campaigns back by sticking with highly unpopular policies.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 27th 2019 at 1:16:42 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285880: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:21:11 PM

I refer to my post at the bottom of the last page

[down][awesome]

Edited by PhysicalStamina on Jul 27th 2019 at 4:34:46 AM

i'm tired, my friend
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#285881: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:25:21 PM

Honestly, it's not like you have to tal about everything you want to do anyway. If you can get elected by talking about important things that are also popular good.

It doesn't preclude being able to work on other less popular, but still important, matters.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#285882: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:36:13 PM

IIRC, Obama kept roughly half of the 400 or so promises he made going into office despite dealing with an obstructive and hostile legislative branch. And the stark contrast in his perception leaving office was stunning.

  • Left: Obama didn't do a single thing! He sat in his office for eight years with his thumb up his ass! NOT ONE MEANINGFUL CHANGE OCCURRED UNDER HIM!!!
  • Right: Obama single-handedly ruined every single facet of American culture! He was like seven terrible Presidents at once, working overtime to destroy all of our laws, traditions, norms, and practices! I didn't know where he found enough time in the day!

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 27th 2019 at 2:37:57 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#285883: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:37:51 PM

[up] the leftist perception there is so aggravating. I see people citing it as a reason not to vote. It’s horrible.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285884: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:39:42 PM

That's what happens when you think politicians are superheroes who can beat up the right people and fix America

i'm tired, my friend
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#285885: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:40:43 PM

Well, I can understand it to a degree. Obama did continue many hated policies of his predecessor.

But it's still unfair to overlook all the good stuff he accomplished.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#285886: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:41:49 PM

Makes you wonder how much more Obama could have done without the obstruction of a hostile Congress...

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#285887: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:42:12 PM

> That's what happens when you think politicians are superheroes who can beat up the right people and fix America

People idolising politicians to point of absurdity is largely bourn out of desperation,that and propaganda

Edited by Ultimatum on Jul 27th 2019 at 8:42:41 AM

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285888: Jul 27th 2019 at 1:45:27 PM

People idolising politicians to point of absurdity is largely bourn out of desperation,that and propaganda

And human psychology, we want leaders to believe in and that impulse when coupled with the reasons you listed (and ignorance) can lead to unreasonable expectations.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#285889: Jul 27th 2019 at 4:44:41 PM

With regards to healthcare, I'm not sure which approach is better: Warren being direct and outright promising to abolish private insurance, though it's very unpopular and unnecessary, few countries follow that model, or pursuing the public option Obama desired.

Life is unfair...
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#285891: Jul 27th 2019 at 7:07:44 PM

Wow. I didn't expect that.

Do not obey in advance.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#285892: Jul 27th 2019 at 8:19:10 PM

Huh. When I read "single bathrooms", I thought it was referring to "bathrooms where there isn't an opposite sex-designated counterpart nearby", and I thought that seemed obvious and weird if there were any that weren't gender-neutral. No, "single bathrooms" refers to "bathrooms meant for only one person to use at a time".

Interesting. I guess the reasoning (besides obviously being good for non-binary and trans people) is that if one of the two bathrooms are occupied, the next person doesn't have to wait to go, they can just use the other bathroom.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jul 27th 2019 at 8:34:21 AM

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#285893: Jul 27th 2019 at 8:49:10 PM

I mean, there's not really much of a point to gendering single bathrooms. The entire reason we have gendered bathrooms is so people of the opposite gender don't run into each other in a state of undress, which isn't an issue here

AceofSpades Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#285894: Jul 27th 2019 at 11:15:39 PM

Unless you're unfortunate enough to forget to lock the door.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#285895: Jul 28th 2019 at 3:08:00 AM

Trump really wants to play the whole Antifa game https://www.axios.com/trump-threatens-classify-antifa-terrorists-9e8c4aa6-75d5-4cc6-a933-dd210f27153e.html

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#285896: Jul 28th 2019 at 4:29:07 AM

Of course he is. Criminalizing the political opposition is Fascism 101. First you start with the 'extreme' and then you slowly walk that down to everyone that opposes you.

"You can reply to this Message!"
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#285897: Jul 28th 2019 at 4:34:48 AM

Aren't Antifa already classified as terrorists? Not that it really means anything since that's not the name of any existing American group

Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#285898: Jul 28th 2019 at 4:44:20 AM

Even if its not the name of any group they'll find a way use them as a scape goat while conveniently ignore right winged terrorism

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#285899: Jul 28th 2019 at 4:52:04 AM

[up][up] No, they tried it previously, but it failed.

Guess they didn't learn.

Edited by Forenperser on Jul 28th 2019 at 2:30:37 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#285900: Jul 28th 2019 at 5:08:27 AM

As somebody said to me yesterday: "The only people happy about anti-fascists being declared terrorists are the fascists".

We learn from history that we do not learn from history

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