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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285651: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:49:34 AM

Civil forfeiture?

Edit: 2/10 topper. I was responding to someone suggesting Trump might have to face civil forfeiture as a result of his crimes.

Edited by Soban on Jul 24th 2019 at 2:52:07 PM

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#285652: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:51:35 AM

[up]Law enforcement seizes his property

Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285653: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:56:35 AM

I know that, I'm trying to figure out how it would apply in this case and how given Timbs it could make a significant dent in his wealth to actually be a punishment.

NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#285654: Jul 24th 2019 at 12:07:44 PM

He doesn't want people to find out he exaggerated about how much wealth he has.

Or he did some shady shit on his property.

Or he doesn't want people touching his stuff.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285655: Jul 24th 2019 at 12:20:42 PM

[up] He is known to be a germophobe

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285656: Jul 24th 2019 at 12:28:23 PM

Trump valuing his wealth (and public perception of it) more than his freedom would completely in character.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285657: Jul 24th 2019 at 12:35:27 PM

Yhea, but lets say that he's found guilty of fedral obstruction, thats prison, but probably not a fine. Even if it was a fine, he's paid them before. And even if they decided to say take the fine in cars or whatever, their still subject to the same limits.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#285658: Jul 24th 2019 at 12:37:54 PM

Even if he would be charged, he'd probably use his wealth to pay any amount of bail and just stay under house arrest or whatever.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#285659: Jul 24th 2019 at 12:41:52 PM

Given what Trump is, I'd advocate a more personalized sentence consisting of public humiliation (the means of which would involve branding him as not as rich as he claims to be, even if only slightly), but I've no reason to believe such a punishment is within the bounds of the law.

My musician page
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285660: Jul 24th 2019 at 12:57:10 PM

After listening to the hearing a bit more, I get the feeling that Muller thinks that while he could be charged with obstruction, there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict given that when asked of Trump hindered his investigation, the answer was no.

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#285661: Jul 24th 2019 at 1:08:37 PM

I'm not in favor of employing civil forfeiture. Especially not when we can put Trump in prison through perfectly open and honest means, life sentences to run consecutively.

danime91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#285662: Jul 24th 2019 at 2:34:37 PM

I mean, if during the case of a hypothetical full-on criminal investigation they happen to find him guilty of massive amounts of fraud, tax evasion, and such, civil forfeiture would totally be on the table.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285663: Jul 24th 2019 at 2:49:45 PM

That was my assumption as well, and his financial crimes would be much easier to convict on, compared to his political ones.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#285664: Jul 24th 2019 at 3:06:31 PM

I personally find civil forfeiture evil unless the property is criminally made.

Which, yes, means that most of Trump's fortune but that's almost an aside.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285665: Jul 24th 2019 at 3:37:31 PM

'Euphoria': White House, GOP exult after a flat Mueller performance – West Wing aides were spiking the proverbial football even before the former special counsel had finished testifying.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/24/robert-mueller-testimony-gop-white-house-1430049

Is this GOP posturing or actually concerning?

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285666: Jul 24th 2019 at 3:39:23 PM

Vox has an article about the hearing that I think sums it up rather well, 5 losers and 0 winners from Robert Mueller’s testimony to the House of Representatives

It lays out the major figures who have lost from this and frankly it's almost hilarious how many of them there are, this terribleness was shockingly equal opportunity.

To list out the losers-

Robert Mueller: The article covers how he has been mythologized to frankly absurd levels, and how that has all come crashing down after the hearing where he not only failed to provide a silver bullet but gave a very weak showing overall. Essentially the article uses the same arguments that several people here have made.

The House of Representatives: The Democrats seem to have mismanaged the hearing rather significantly, their questions were not very compelling and they failed to account for Mueller failing to properly handle the Republican's strategy of shouting nonsense.

Impeachment: Mueller's utter nonstarter as a witness deeply undercurrents the argument in favor of impeachment, if it's supposed to lay out the crimes of the Trump administration and convince the public then this hearing has shown a dark alternative. Confused witnesses, muddied waters, and poor planning are not the kind of things that lead to the kind of benefit that pro-impeachment arguments posit.

President Trump: Mueller clearly stating that Trump could be charged after he leaves offices is rather important, if a hostile Justice Department decides to bring up charges against him then he could very well be indicted in the future. Which suffice to say, is not a good thing for Trump.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285668: Jul 24th 2019 at 3:51:08 PM

Yeah, the fifth was the Mueller report but it was just repeating Mueller's failings. So I felt it was redundant and left it out.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
BearyScary Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: You spin me right round, baby
#285669: Jul 24th 2019 at 4:24:55 PM

To be blunt, Mueller probably has been mythologized too much, and it was also too much to expect for him or his report to get out us out of this nightmare anytime soon.

The right-wing is going to be even more insufferable for a while, at least until the reality of how terrible 45 is crashes on them again.

Edited by BearyScary on Jul 24th 2019 at 3:25:44 AM

Do not obey in advance.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#285670: Jul 24th 2019 at 4:26:43 PM

10 key takeaways from Robert Mueller's testimony

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/24/politics/robert-mueller-testimony-highlights/index.html

By Chris Cillizza, for what little or much that may be worth

Edited by sgamer82 on Jul 24th 2019 at 5:28:43 AM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285671: Jul 24th 2019 at 4:46:47 PM

To be blunt, Mueller probably has been mythologized too much, and it was also too much to expect for him or his report to get out us out of this nightmare anytime soon.

The right-wing is going to be even more insufferable for a while, at least until the reality of how terrible 45 is crashes on them again.

Agreed, this is why I consider the hearing to be a net gain.

There was never any chance of impeachment being viable so the only real change is that we now know that Trump could be indicted by a Democratic Do J which is lovely.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#285672: Jul 24th 2019 at 4:50:13 PM

Yeah people were ready to believe anything about the Muller report,can't say I blame em,for some people these are desperate times and they'll take whatever hopeful they can and depend on it

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Ultimatum Disasturbator from the Amiga Forest (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#285674: Jul 24th 2019 at 5:08:20 PM

Oof,I hope hes at a secure location,one does not simply rat out the mob

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285675: Jul 24th 2019 at 5:19:30 PM

I doubt this victory lap by the GOP will be very long, the hearing only reinforced the status quo, and I'll give Trump a week or two tops before he shifts the news cycle against himself once again.

Plus, there are the Democratic debates in a few days.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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