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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#285626: Jul 24th 2019 at 8:59:33 AM

[up][up] Willfully ignoring the truth is no excuse.

"You can reply to this Message!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285627: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:02:07 AM

[up][up]Not even that necessarily. They just don't want to admit that their victories were thanks in part to Kremlin interference.

Edited by M84 on Jul 25th 2019 at 12:02:59 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#285628: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:07:08 AM

Yeah, Republicans don't need to be paid by Russians to be selfish disloyal wretches.

After all, it's already in their interests to ignore the harm being done by Trump (or consider it a boon) no need for shady money to be involved.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285629: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:11:54 AM

Remember that Republican emails were hacked as well, there is a not zero chance that some of them are being blackmailed.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#285630: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:22:59 AM

Hooooly fuck, my wish kinda-sorta came true.

TL;DW - Republican Ken Buck (Ohio) asked why Mueller declined to make a determination regarding the Obstruction charges, Mueller referred to the OLC guidelines. Buck pressed the point, and...

Ken Buck: But the, uh... could you charge the President with a crime after he left office?
Robert Mueller: Yes.
Buck: You believe that he committed- you could charge the President of the United States with Obstruction of Justice after he left office?
Mueller: Yes.

This should act as the flashpoint moment.

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285631: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:26:35 AM

[nja]

Republican Ken Buck Scores Massive Own Goal in Mueller Questioning

Before Buck, the marathon grilling of Mueller had followed a familiar pattern: Democrats fired off quick questions designed to elicit yes or no answers regarding some of the most damning passages of the special counsel’s 488-page report, while Republicans tried to catch Mueller in a lie or call out his supposed hypocrisy for not investigating the far right’s favorite bugbears like the so-called Steele Dossier or the opposition research firm Fusion GPS.

When it was his turn to speak, Rep. Buck pressed Mueller on why he reached a conclusion on whether members of the Trump presidential campaign conspired with Russian officials (they did not, according to Mueller) but did not reach a similar conclusion on whether President Trump obstructed justice.

...

But Buck, a former prosecutor in the Justice Department, wasn’t finished with his questioning.

“Could you charge the president with a crime after he left office?” Buck asked.

“Yes,” Mueller replied instantly.

Buck went on: “You believe that he committed — you could charge the President of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?”

“Yes,” Mueller said again.

Edited by Soban on Jul 24th 2019 at 12:27:07 PM

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#285632: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:33:06 AM

Optimistic me is looking forward to the spectacle of Trump leaving the White House in February 2021 in police custody on the way to his arraignment.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 24th 2019 at 12:33:52 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#285633: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:46:13 AM

The presidency switches between people at midday on Inauguration Day right? So there is a real possibility that if Trump loses in 2020 his last few hours as a free man will be spent watching his successor being sworn in.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Soban Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
#285634: Jul 24th 2019 at 9:50:43 AM

I doubt it, chances are that even when he is charged, he'll be able to argue he's not that big of a flight risk given that he has a 24/7 law enforcement detail around him even if he wasn't getting charged.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285635: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:01:43 AM

And charging an ex-president takes time, they'll cross their Ts and dot their Is obsessively.

Edited by Rationalinsanity on Jul 24th 2019 at 2:02:01 PM

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#285636: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:08:36 AM

He'll also try to self pardon

"You can reply to this Message!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285637: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:10:56 AM

That's exactly why they don't charge until he leaves office. And turn over damning evidence to New York.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
akanesarumara Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#285638: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:12:59 AM

Can they even charge while he is in office if evidence comes to light of criminal activity committed before his term? I understand presidents can't be charged for things they did during their term to avoid the next president just getting their predecessor imprisoned on "I hate his guts" but...

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#285639: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:17:56 AM

Nope, they can't be charged while sitting. The point is to avoid frivolous charges so he can run the country without distraction, not to say "he's incapable of committing a crime while in office."

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
speedyboris Since: Feb, 2010
#285640: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:22:36 AM

So aside from a couple moments, this was just as big an anti-climax as I was expecting. Sigh.

PhysicalStamina i'm tired, my friend (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
i'm tired, my friend
#285641: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:27:20 AM

For someone who was expecting an anti-climax you sound pretty disappointed.

i'm tired, my friend
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#285642: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:32:07 AM

IMHO, it was better than I expected.

Which I guess speaks volumes about my expectations.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#285643: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:44:54 AM

Is self-pardon really a thing? Thought Donald was just talking outta his ass.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#285644: Jul 24th 2019 at 10:45:52 AM

It's unclear if pardoning yourself is allowed or not. It's never come up, and nobody's ever seemed crazy enough to try so far.

Leviticus 19:34
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#285645: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:18:41 AM

That question would go immediately to the Supreme Court, which should crush the idea if the conservative justices are not completely insane.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#285647: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:25:33 AM

Insane in that they'd be opening the door for any future President to defy the law to whatever degree they chose: to be completely immune from all consequences of actions taken in office. Not even the most conservative Justice should want that.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#285648: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:31:18 AM

There's also the possibility that a self-pardon is both legitimate and a crime, so he'd get away with any crimes he self-pardoned but could still be charged with obstruction of justice for self-pardoning.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#285649: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:34:14 AM

Then he pardons himself for obstruction of justice and the recursion just keeps going...

Of course, he can't pardon himself for state-level crimes, so New York prosecutors would still be able to pluck him out of his fancy tower and put him in prison clothes.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#285650: Jul 24th 2019 at 11:42:17 AM

And even a relatively minor charge can put an old man away for life. Plus, and this is probably worse as far as Trump is concerned, civil forfeiture is a definite possibility.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

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